Game mechanicsNewbie guideIn developmentDDO StoreSocial Media


ChallengesClassesCollectablesCraftingEnhancementsEpic DestiniesFavorFeats

GlossaryItemsMapsMonstersPlacesQuestsRacesReincarnationSkillsSpells


Please create an account or log in to build a reputation and unlock more editing privileges, and then visit DDO wiki's IRC Chat/Discord if you need any help!

Template talk:Quest

From DDO wiki
Jump to: navigation, search
⇑   ⇑   Back to top   ⇑   ⇑
Past discussions archived to...

Flagging[edit]

This could use a Flagging item. Hoopy Froodle (ContribsMessage) 21:45, January 23, 2017 (EST)

  • Bump. Flagging parameter still isn't present in the template. Quests with flagging have it, DPL for flagging uses it. The template itself ignores it and doesn't have it documented. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 11:51, April 1, 2018 (EDT)
  • Working as currently intended. Flagging has always gone in the Overview section. The Flagging parameter is used on some pages to offer a possibly abbreviated version to DPL queries that make use of it and should not replace typing out the full flagging routine on the quest page itself as a subsection of the |overview=. If you'd like to change how it's intended to work, feel free to start a discussion on it. Thanks.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 04:15, April 3, 2018 (EDT)

"Needs to have Parameters updated due to change..."[edit]

Kobold Sneak keeps adding this after updating quests to include the bonuses, what "parameters" exactly need updating on all of these? -LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 13:04, June 12, 2017 (EDT)

  • Replace |obj= with |objective_1= through |objective_###= as a list of in-quest objectives
  • Optionals should be indicated as such with |optional_1= through |optional_###= instead of being grouped into the old |obj=
  • |opt_percent_1= through |opt_percent_###= should be indicated for completing the corresponding |optional_###= We are no longer using {{Calculated XP bonus}} directly on quest pages.
  • |monsters= has been deprecated and should no longer be included on the page.
  • External links to YouTube videos or forum posts etc should use corresponding {{OnYouTube}} or {{Forums}} etc templates in a new |external links= section.
  • All XP bonuses should now use the following parameters directly in the quest template instead of how we use to do it with {{ XP bonus | k1-3 | b1-3 | s1-3 | ... }}:
    • |insidious= cunning bonus
    • |devious= bonus
    • |discreet= bonus
    • |aggression= bonus
    • |onslaught= bonus
    • |conquest= bonus
    • |tamper= bonus
    • |neutralization= bonus
    • |ingenious= debilitation bonus
    • |observance= bonus
    • |perception= bonus
    • |vigilant= sight bonus
    • |mischief= bonus
    • |vandal= bonus
    • |ransack= bonus
    • |bonus_xp_notes= list any notes about hitting XP bonuses here.
I'll be uploading a DDOwiki talk that goes over all of it in the next day or two. :) ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 18:44, June 12, 2017 (EDT)
  • OK, the XP bonuses are great, but the objectives and optionals 1-XXX seem a bit way-the-heck-over-the-top, IMHO. Why not just keep with the asterisks on a new line? This seems to be needlessly complicated to me. -LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 19:15, June 12, 2017 (EDT)
  • The optionals don't all give the same % bonus of XP, so they need to each have their own line. It's an overall improvement in the appearance (has a much better looking result at the end and uses a lot less bits per page). ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 21:23, June 12, 2017 (EDT)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Okay, so I got the episode uploaded to YouTube: Watch on YouTube! I hope this, starting at 25m2s, helps explain it all. Big Grin ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 10:39, June 13, 2017 (EDT)

Bonus XP Notes[edit]

Optional XP[edit]

Can we get this set off from the objective more distinctly? "(Optional) Kill the Ogre Shaman who has allied with the Hobgoblin raiders Heroic: +10% Bonus." just looks shabby. As an aside, I like how the "(Optional)" part looks on the actual page. Perhaps doing the same thing for the "Heroic: +10% Bonus" would work? -LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 00:08, June 30, 2017 (EDT)

  • I read this a few times now, and I'm still not sure I understand what you want. I'm planning on getting rid of the Heroic/Epic heading for XP all together since the percent bonus should be the same for both across the board. How will that affect your request?  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 22:29, July 8, 2017 (EDT)
    • I still think the "+X% Bonus" should be different. Italicized, or italicized/greyed to look the same way as "Optional" at the beginning of the line, or something. It's just that right now it looks like the text says "(Optional) blah blah blah Heroic: 10% Bonus". And "(Optional) blah blah blah 10% Bonus" would just look better, IMHO. I know we had a similar discussion back with the old style about making the bonus distinct from the actual text, and I forget what we settled on looks-wise. -LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 22:45, July 8, 2017 (EDT)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I'm working on this now!!! DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 08:54, October 10, 2017 (EDT)

  • Made the modifications noted in the discussion on my talk page. Still doesn't seem to be rendering the way I expect, but maybe I'm just too tired (I'm 25 hours into a 36 hour livestream at the moment.) DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 09:10, October 10, 2017 (EDT)
    • Query: Do we really need "Heroic" and "Epic"? I mean, are there any cases where the percentage is different? If you look at Fathom the Depths, for instance, it says "(Optional) Free the Raveneye captives before lowering the barriers (7 total) Heroic: (+20% Bonus.) Epic: (+20% Bonus.)" Now, the "(+20% Bonus)" looks good, but the "blah blah blah objective blah blah Heroic" part looks shabby, and I really don't think that we need 1) the distinction between heroic & epic, or 2) the words "Heroic" or "Epic" to be in there. Just "(Optional) Free the Raveneye captives before lowering the barriers (7 total) (+20% Bonus.). -LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 21:29, October 11, 2017 (EDT)
      • I can add some logic later that will compare the two percentages and if they are equal, eliminate the redundant text. That will take a bit of work, so it probably won't be on wiki talk this week. DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 08:15, October 17, 2017 (EDT)
      • Okay, so I looked at this and I don't really understand the request. The input is |opt_percent_#= which is the same for both heroic and epic. The reason both texts are there is because the base for heroic and epic is different, not the percent. I'm thinking that the resulting text should read something like:
        XP: Heroic♣800 ♦1,200 ♥1,400 ♠1,700 / Epic♣2,800 ♦3,200 ♥3,400 ♠3,700  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 12:38, November 26, 2017 (EST)

Quest Failure[edit]

Extra newline in objectives when there are no optionals[edit]

Done  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 04:10, April 3, 2018 (EDT)

This can be viewed in quests such as The Friar's Niece. I think this can be fixed with a nowiki tag as in Template:Quest/sandbox2. I tested it for the 5 unique situations I could think of:

1. objective_# (quest updated to new template format) with no optionals (such as Endgame: The Archbishop's Fate)
2. objective_# (quest updated to new template format) with optionals (such as The Old Archives)
3. obj (quest NOT updated to new template format) with no optionals (such as Protect Baudry's Interests)
4. obj (quest NOT updated to new template format) with optionals (such as The Depths of Despair)
5. no objectives or optionals (such as To_Find_a_Witness:_Archbishop_Dryden)

I also made sure that I tested each of the 5 cases for when the expect parameter was present or missing and it worked in all 10 trials. Is this a valid fix? Kkoliver (ContribsMessage) 09:42, September 14, 2017 (EDT)

  • Bump. Extra newline still plagues the quest pages despite there being a fix. If you're gonna admin protect all the templates that do something, at least be there to update them. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 11:54, April 1, 2018 (EDT)
    • Go ahead and fix it if you like, there's nothing stopping you from editing any page on the wiki. I don't know of any sandbox pages that are protected. Get it working how you think it should work, and put in a request - Should make sure to sync the live template with whatever sandbox page you want first to make sure they can be merged easily.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 04:07, April 3, 2018 (EDT)

Bestower[edit]

There is an incosistency with the bestower. While the npc contact has a link, the bestower does not. Change to:

| bestower = [[{{{bestower}}}]]

Faltout (ContribsMessage) 18:36, January 10, 2018 (EST)

  • IIRC... It was intentionally left non-linked because not all quests are bestowed by an NPC and the ones that are "walk ups" or bestowed from an item in your inventory or a sign-post caused all kinds of annoying issues when linked like that.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 22:54, January 10, 2018 (EST)
    • If you can point me in the direction of the ones that are causing the trouble I'll be happy to fix them. I corrected all the Twelve patron quests and intend to edit all the quests adding the "bestower" field and will keep correcting the other quests with their correct bestower (most of them have this field blank leading to erroneous information displayed). I'll be removing any links from the bestower, so I'm suggesting you add them here. For example, Palace of Stone has had the bestower updated to Housewarming Invitation instead of Housewarming Invitation, so it needs the link back through the Quest template. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 06:16, January 11, 2018 (EST)
      • What about the case where there are multiple different people that can bestow the same quest? This happens for Tutorial: How to advance your character. Having the link on the template side in a simple way would not work unless the workaround I used for the npc field were used every time. Kkoliver (ContribsMessage) 17:00, January 11, 2018 (EST)
        • This is a valid point too. There are a couple edge cases like this where it's really not worth the extra load on the server to update the template to accept multiple NPCs for one or two quests but you don't want those quests to be broken. Another option is to use the {{Extra}} template for multiple NPCs, although it may need to be adjusted to work correctly for this use case.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 17:05, January 11, 2018 (EST)
        • To be fair, those quests should not use this template that adds them in several categories where they don't belong and tries to display information that is irrelevant to those quests (duration? free to play? extreme challenge? monsters?). I'll try to create a new template to use on them that gives them their proper categorization. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 15:15, January 16, 2018 (EST)
          • I can get behind a new template for these type of "quests". My idea for adding them is because they show up in the journal and people that are completionists like me may want to clear every quest from their journal. Some of these non-quests that show up the journal are bugged or it is not clear how to complete them so I just figured I'd add them. The quest template didn't fit perfectly but I didn't know what else to use. There were a lot of these type of quests already on the wiki. (See Refugee Toll, The Rewards of Treachery, To Find a Witness: Archbishop Dryden, etc.) Kkoliver (ContribsMessage) 15:31, January 16, 2018 (EST)
            • There are still quests, and as such should use the Quest template. I don't agree that the categorization is irrelevant although I could get behind a new parameter and additional category for "starter quests" or something of that nature to identify these quests are "special".  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 15:39, January 16, 2018 (EST)
              • I strongly disagree that they should use the Quest template. The template is extremelly cluttered as it is, adding special cases like that would only lead to more confusion, editing and miscategorized quests. This template is focused on quests that take place in a dungeon, have monsters, xp, rewards. The quests in question are tutorial quests, seasonal quests, chain quests, etc. A slayer quest in an explorer area does not use the quest template and it shouldn't. Neither should those quests. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 15:59, January 16, 2018 (EST)
      • I do not know off the top of my head. I'd have to do a Special:Search for walk-up I know there are a bunch in Gianthold and the desert, not sure where else.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 17:05, January 11, 2018 (EST)
  • Other issue with non-linking: in the summaries (e.g. House Kundarak), quests with a bestower do not hyperlink the bestower's name. I do note that if a quest has no bestower entry then the NPC contact is also used for the bestower, and that gets hyperlinked, but the summary then shows the bestower as "Unknown". Can we get some form of standardisation? Nom (ContribsMessage) 06:52, January 17, 2020 (EST)
    • The bestower name is not linked "yet" because of this exact discussion. Some bestowers are linked (because that's how it used to be coded) and some are not linked (because they didn't work with ShoeMaker's quest table in Guide to Free to Play#Quest list). Also, some quest pages link the bestower and some don't. Once a standard has been decided (linked, not linked, comma separated multiple bestowers, something else), the tables in House Kundarak will have links. As for the "Unknown"s, the quest pages should be updated to have a bestower instead of using the "npc" which is not the bestower, but the person that issues the reward. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 17:39, January 17, 2020 (EST)

questloc, adpack categorization[edit]

I have a couple of requests for this template.

  • Starting with |questloc=. First requested here (Template_talk:Quest/Archive01#Quest_Zones) but never implemented. This parameter should have at least 2 possible values because of 2 quests (Desert Caravan, Ritual Sacrifice) that can be accessed from 2 places. It should also be linked automatically by the template. Finally, quests should be categorized using this information (Quests in <questloc>) and categorization using |zone= should have a different name (Quests aqcuired in <zone>).
  • All quests have had their |adpack= updated. I made sure of that. Now it is time for the template to start categorizing the quests to adventure packs (<adpack> quests). Also, do not add this categorization to the {{Adpack}} template or a whole bunch of irrelevant pages will be categorized as well.

I have more modifications in mind, but those will do for now so I can start working on updating a bunch of pages with DPL.
Faltout (ContribsMessage) 07:48, April 26, 2018 (EDT)

  • I believe Into the Mists can also be entered from two places, House J and EStar; and the two free L15 Wheloon pre-quests can be entered from EStar or Wheloon (the third one that's part of the Shadowfell XPac can be picked up in EStar, but you have to go to Wheloon to enter, and a few others have alternative entrances but in the same zone, so I think these don't fit the parameters of this). But... where's the second entrance for RitSac? I only know about the one from Vale along the ridge. LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 14:02, April 26, 2018 (EDT)
  • I added the |dungeonentrance= in Template:Quest/sandbox2 and Template:MissionInfoBox/sandbox2. It can accept multiple values separated by comma. For example (Desert Caravan): dungeonentrance=House Phiarlan,Zawabi's Refuge. Before deciding on the comma separation, I checked all the known zones for commas present in their name and didn't find any. Also added categorization for |dungeonentrance= ("Quests in <dungeonentrance>"), for |adpack= ("<adpack> quests") and changed the categorization of |zone= from "<zone> quests" to "Quests acquired in <zone>". The new parameter "dungeonentrance" will be visible in the MissionInfoBox (testcase1).
    I await for the code review and discussion. Note that the testcase doesn't have any categories because then it would appear in quest tables. To see if categorization works, remove the DPL section at the top of the testcase page and preview. The categories should be visible at the bottom. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 15:15, July 14, 2018 (EDT)
  • I notice that 2 days ago categorization according to adpack was added. That's good news because now I can finally add the quest DPL template to the adventure pack pages like I've done with the patron pages. Unfortunately, the previous categorization according to location was not removed (like I've proposed above) and now both categorizations are: "<adpack> quests" and "<bestowloc> quests" which creates confusion. I remind you that I've proposed some well-thought changes above and implemented them in the sandbox pages. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 09:24, July 24, 2020 (EDT)
    • I notice that 2 days ago, categorization changed again (when it was moved to {{MissionInfoBox}}) and became the same categorization for everything instead of separating the different types like I've mentioned above. It's now "<patron> quests", "<zone> quests", "<adpack> quests" and so on. This is obviously not functional given that a quest located in The Twelve may have The Gatekeepers as patron or a quest belonging to the Vale of Twilight pack may be in the Meridia area. The important functionality that was lost with the change was that the patron pages can no longer get their quest lists automatically and as a result, the favor in the favor page cannot be calculated. An unrelated note: Categorization should happen in this template as it has all the parameters to perform that categorization while the InfoBox only has some of them. This will allow categorization to be in the same place. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 05:20, July 26, 2020 (EDT)
      • Working as intended. Thanks. You can just use {{Quest list}} with a single parameter for patron, zone, adpack, etc and it'll create our list of quests for that area, patron, etc. You can pull up overlapping lists without issue. The only thing I need to figure out is why ' causes a DB issue when doing a query.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 09:13, July 26, 2020 (EDT)
        • Can you please add usage and examples to T:Quest list? For example, create a list of quests that grant House Jorasco favor; or a list of quests with bestowers in House Jorasco. Thanks. Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 02:10, July 27, 2020 (EDT)
          • Quest list is pretty simply. It creates a lists of quest for [<thing> quests] and sub-categories two levels deep. It's still a brand new work in progress as I've been stalled waiting on Xevo to resolve some SQL database issues (it can't produce results for category title with a ' single quote in the title). I'll add documentation and refine the process as I go. If Faltout already had something for this, he should have applied it to all the adpack pages, area pages, patron pages and if he had changes he wanted in a protected template he should of created a sandbox template and requested the changes. This should have been done a long time ago, but I get it - as volunteers, we get to things as they come to us.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 08:32, July 27, 2020 (EDT)
            • If you look at the start of this section, you will see that I requested categorization based on adpack 2 years ago and implemented the changes in the sandbox pages. I felt I needed to mention that because I find it funny that you say "If you wanted it, you should have implemented it long time ago" when that's exactly what I did... Faltout (ContribsMessage) 11:01, July 27, 2020 (EDT)
              • Yet it wasn't there until I added it just recently for the work on a project I started working on with {{Quest list}}. Apparently, almost no-one saw this discussion two years ago because it was never implemented or worked on and seems to have been quickly abandoned. I'd suggest next time you make use of the {{Edit request}} template to draw the attention of administrators who can preform the edits based on what is in the sandbox that the testcases show as working and viable. Before you get all defensive, I said next time as I realize that template didn't exist until 2018/11 and this request was 2018/07. For this request, it may have been in your best interest to pop into Discord or IRC (which has been around a VERY long time) or drop a note on a few different administrators' talk pages.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 08:51, July 29, 2020 (EDT)

Quests sharing favour but with different names[edit]

Relevant to quests such as Madstone Crater (Heroic)/Return to Madstone Crater (Epic)

The following 2 parameters are intended for the level of the quest:

 | level            = 
 | epic             = 

Problem 1: As the quests have different names, filling both entries in means both quests are listed at both Epic and Heroic Levels

Problem 2: If the entry is left blank, an end user of the wiki is not informed about the epic version when the look at the level list of the heroic version and vice versa

Currently:

 | level            = Accepts Numbers and Text allowing placement of link in Epic Quest back to Heroic Version
 | epic             = Accepts Numbers only, preventing placement of link in Heroic Quest back to Epic Version

Problem: "Category:Compendium:Level {}" automatically creates a link if the field is populated, whether by a number or text

Additionally:

 | Shares Favor     = 

Parameter exists (and is theoretically useful) but does not display in info box for quest

Solution:

Update "epic" to allow Text as well as numbers

Update "Category:Compendium:Level {}" to so it is only cross-referenced/populated if "epic" or "level" contain numerical values

Add "Shares Favor" to Template:Quest and display it in info box below "Favor"

End Result:

Any wiki users can see clearly that there is an epic version of the heroic quest (and vice versa) automatically, no matter where they look.

Incorrect assumptions about favour not being shared due to difference in name and each quest saying Heroic: None" or "Epic: None" cannot be made.

The important thing with the wiki is that relevant information is visible to users where they would expect to see it, which the current set up does not allow for.

My proposal is to use the |shares favor= (which I recently added to some quests for future use from my templates) to indicate that the quest has a heroic/epic counterpart. If |level= is empty or not defined and |shares favor= is non-empty, then display "Heroic Level: [[{{{shares favor}}}]]". Same for epic. If |epic= is empty or not defined and |shares favor= is non-empty, then display "Epic Level: [[{{{shares favor}}}]]". It won't display the actual level of the heroic/epic counterpart, but I think it's a good compromise, don't you agree?.
  1. (Instead of "Heroic Level:" you can display "Heroic counterpart:")
  2. (If you want to display the level as well, you can add another parameter similar to "shares favor" with the other level OR you can get it automatically via DPL)
Faltout (ContribsMessage) 11:08, April 28, 2018 (EDT)

As long as something rather than "None" gets displayed against Heroic and Epic Levels in these scenarios, it's good. Autopopulation of |xp= / |level= and |epicxp= / |epic= when they are unpopulated/not present and |shares favor= is populated definitely would save manual effort, while still providing the relevant information to people in the relevant places and avoiding cross-reference issues.-- Glmfw1 (ContribsMessage) 12:12, April 28, 2018 (EDT)

I updated Template:Quest/sandbox and Template:MissionInfoBox/sandbox with the |shares favor= parameter and it will not show the name of the epic/heroic counterpart at the Heroic level or Epic level rows instead of a purple "None". Now someone with access to the template code should update the template. Do we want the level and/or the xp of the other quest displayed? Faltout (ContribsMessage) 14:36, May 25, 2018 (EDT)

  • Bump. It's been almost 2 weeks. Can someone review and apply the changes please? Faltout (ContribsMessage) 08:10, June 5, 2018 (EDT)
    • Bump #2. It's now been 1 month. If the administrators don't do their job of reviewing requested changes for protected pages then perhaps they should either recruit more administrators to do this job or unprotect the pages. This is my last bump on this talk page. Next move will be to edit the quest pages to use the unprotected and updated template in the sandbox. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 12:53, June 27, 2018 (EDT)
      • Oppose — Not done (at least for now) After your last edit request needed to be reverted, I'm hesitant to make other edits on your behalf without multiple tried and proven test cases showing things won't break. I personally haven't acted on this request as I have not seen any convincing support for the change. The only comment I see is someone who thinks something is better than "none", and I believe sometimes "none" is appropriate. Threatening to cause mass disruption usually won't get you what you want, but may get you blocked and banned.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 01:09, June 28, 2018 (EDT)
        • There IS a way to test the changes I've made. Go to the quest pages described above, apply the MissionInfoBox/sandbox template, hit preview and see if it's broken. Or apply the changes, go to a bunch of quest pages and see if it's broken. Then revert. I can't do the tests for you (without creating a bunch of useless sandbox pages). If "reviewing" the changes shows an error, then you don't apply the changes. That's what the "reviewing the changes" means. I wouldn't have seen that the last edit request wasn't perfect without widespread application.
          In any case, at least now there is a response to the request. If admins don't do what they advertise their job to be, then the wiki doesn't work is all I'm saying. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 01:28, June 28, 2018 (EDT)
          • Don't you worry about "useless sandbox pages", we can always delete them later. Please place {{Template testcase TOC}} at the top of each to ease navigation.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 01:38, June 28, 2018 (EDT)
            • Sure, it's not like you were arguing that nothing gets deleted in the wiki and that the wiki has very finite resourses not long ago in JJMC89's talk page. In any case, I don't know how to use the above template and there isn't any USAGE info on the template page. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 01:52, June 28, 2018 (EDT)
  • This seems like a reasonable request and implementation. The change to this template is trivial, and the change to {{MissionInfoBox}} is straightforward. — Zav(T·C) 02:37, June 28, 2018 (EDT)
    • This was straightforward and trivial too until it had to be rolled back because it was badly broken. A few testcases pages to make sure that's not going to happen again doesn't seem like an unreasonable request and a couple testcases pages will use a lot less space than having to revert template parameter changes to a few hundred pages. I have to seriously question the ability of an editor to make edits to complex templates when they have to ask how to use a template such as {{Template testcase TOC}}; especially when I already said how to use it: Please place {{Template testcase TOC}} at the top of each to ease navigation.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 11:55, June 28, 2018 (EDT)
      • Testcase pasted. You must have the impression that changes to every quest page are needed. If you read the start of this topic carefully, you'll find out that the relevant parameters are already in place where needed. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 15:17, June 28, 2018 (EDT)

Xp bonus[edit]

I just noticed that the bonus xp (conquest, ransack, whatnot) do not generate any xp numbers for epic xp. This template needs to send the epic xp values (if they exist) to {{XP bonus}}. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 05:57, July 21, 2018 (EDT)

New parameter |dm[edit]

So, Sharn brings a couple new guest dungeon masters; I was wondering if anyone thought it was a good idea to create a new parameter in T:Quest (or MissionInfoBox?) about narrators / dungeon masters. Then we would also add a new article about narrators; it seems we don't have this info consolidated anywhere. -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 03:19, May 20, 2019 (EDT)

The entire T:Quest has to be rebuil. I started working a revamp long ago Template:Sandbox2/Bladedge looking back on it it need more work especially the info box as it missing alot of info. Of course any suggestions, recommendations are welcome, probably can get a new version out in a few weeks. Now the aftermath after a Template update.... Bladedge (ContribsMessage) 21:12, May 20, 2019 (EDT)
No need to integrate DM info into the template, esp no on infobox, IMO, they dont add much gameplay-wise. Lets just create Guest DM page and list em. Uhhm who do we have here, Gygax, Arneson, Will Wheaton (hate that guy for toxic SNS behavior), Greenwood and Baker... thats pretty much all? We dont count Jerry/Cordovan do we? -- yoko5000 (ContribsMessage) 11:12, May 21, 2019 (EDT)
+1 on separate article, it both keeps quest articles cleaner AND collects similar info together. If we're doing it, list everyone possible, whether Dev or special guest voice. (& @ Bladedge, re "suggestions" - Don't miss my post below, thx!) C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 14:02, May 23, 2019 (EDT)
  • Cordovan narrated for Tower of Frost, and should be included. We also have a lot more DMs than that. Including but not limited to Ally Murphy, Bill Champaign, Cindy Robinson, and others. I'd certainly like to have it listed somewhere on each quest page where the information is known - even if just added as a category such as "Quests narrated by xxx". You won't need a List of ... page and it will help keep it organized better in the long run.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 22:32, May 24, 2019 (EDT)

I've created the article Dungeon master. I only listed DMs that have some public connection to PnP D&D; but I did include a link to voice actors. -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 02:47, July 15, 2019 (EDT)

  • I don't see a reason to split pnp associated DMs from voice actors who DM quests. Please merge them. Also, both of those pages are missing Bill Champaign, who was announced as a MoS DM by Cordovan on WWLL livestream. DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 09:34, July 17, 2019 (EDT)
    • I don't know who Bill Champaign is. Google doesn't tell me. He is not listed here: https://store.standingstonegames.com/store?Action=custom&Locale=en_US&SiteID=ssg&pbpage=ddo-sharn. I don't see why should I mention some random name. I also don't see a reason for merging. Not all voice actors are dungeon masters. Those are simply different groups of people with minor overlap. There's lot more voice in DDO than just dungeon mastery. -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 15:32, July 17, 2019 (EDT)
      • Then there will be a lot of redundancy because ALL of the DMs should be listed on the DM page, not just the ones who are part of pnp. We're not DnD pnp wiki, we're DDOwiki and all DDO DMs should be credited as such.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 16:46, July 17, 2019 (EDT)

Comments below maps?[edit]

Is it possible to add a comment embedded below a map? Some maps want/need some descriptive name, comment or explanation, more than "Second Map", "Fifth Map", etc. C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 12:36, May 20, 2019 (EDT)

  • Should now be able to do it with the appropriate |map # alt= parameter. Just did a quick template edit for it. Let me know if you see any issues.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 22:25, May 24, 2019 (EDT)

When Heroic/Epic have diff names[edit]

This doesn't happen often, but when it does it would be nice to have the two articles acknowledge each other somehow. For instance, the articles for The Legend of Two-Toed Tobias and A Legend Revisited are not connected/linked in any way, nor even reference each other. (I just added a comment at the end of "Tips", but that's not very satisfacory.) In fact, the Two-Toe page says "No Epic version" and Legend says "no Heroic version", giving the wrong impression to anyone unfamiliar w/ the pack. This is misleading at best, and should be addressed imo. C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 15:02, June 14, 2019 (EDT)

  • The epic/heroic names are mentioned in the epic/heroic xp rows respectively. As for the infobox saying "no epic version" and "no heroic version", I had a modification to that implemented in the template's sandbox however noone priviledged decided to merge it. Look above #Quests sharing favour but with different names Faltout (ContribsMessage) 15:30, June 14, 2019 (EDT)

Edit request on 11:20, November 6, 2019 (EST)[edit]

Mbox.png
A requested edit has been completed!
 
... by:  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟
 
... on: 18:27 (UTC), November 6, 2019

Please change the first line in the "Monsters" section...
from:

{{#ifexist:Category:Monsters in {{PAGENAME}}|{{:Category:Monsters in {{PAGENAME}}}}|{{{monsters|* {{Error|1=No monsters defined for this quest.}}}}}}}


to:

{{#ifexist:Category:Monsters in {{PAGENAME}}|{{:Category:Monsters in {{PAGENAME}}}}|{{{monsters|* {{Error|1=No monsters defined for this quest.}}}}}<span class="superuser-show sysop-show">&#32;{{Preload|Category:Monsters in {{PAGENAME}}|Template:Monsters in quest/preload}}</span>}}

...to make it easier for anyone who's superuser or above to click a link to quickly create the category page if it doesn't already exist. DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 11:20, November 6, 2019 (EST)

Updated Quest Infobox[edit]

A Updated version quest info box is finally complete and up for review at Template:Sandbox/Bladedge. Its a complete overhaul to replace the existing info box which is outdated and missing information. Bladedge (ContribsMessage) 15:54, December 1, 2019 (EST)

  • Can you add the changes to make |mappic= not limited to 6 using #forargs?
  • Maybe use {{Reaper XP}} in the reaper section to show the skulls?
  • casual • normal • hard • elite XP values for heroic • epic • legendary should have separate inputs and not use {{Xpcolors}} nested like that. Separate values are required in the (parent {{Quest}}) template to show correct optional xp values anyway.
  • What's the |chaptera= through |chapterz= supposed to be for?
  • There aren't, and I don't expect there to be any quests with more than two of three, heroic • epic • legendary versions, so can we compact the levels for that to be side-by-side instead of stacked on separate rows? On the same note, favor could be collapsed to two rows with "Favor: solo" on top of "norm: hard: elite:" and some of the bottom section with chests, traps, collectable nodes, etc could be collapsed as well.
Just a first pass of thoughts before moving this to live.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 23:24, December 1, 2019 (EST)
  1. Ill see what I can do.
  2. Didn't like the hover over icon for popups doesnt work well for touchscreens. Kept it to raw math..
    • Kept it text base, no popups /rollovers/ hoverover, no duration mods just the same rxp you see at top of quest xp report Bladedge (ContribsMessage) 13:45, June 7, 2020 (EST)
  3. Leftover working code from when i started long ago. Came back, it work, kept it, but Ill change it.
  4. The order in which the quests in the quest chain takes place.
  5. XP rows collapse when blank, almost similar for saga. The reaper row were suppose to collapse but seems I forgot to code it , instead it now gives a expression error message....
    • Originally had it side by side as a third column but it looked cluttered and thru off the box quick readability.
    • Originally had it plan to hide chest, traps, etc when they not part of the quest. Then I thought just have this part remain visible as to show it wasn't omitted and to say up front "Here the numbers even if 0".
  6. Info I was going add: Ransack, Discreet, Conquest, Devious, monsters which could be info overload.

Bladedge (ContribsMessage) 18:46, February 9, 2020 (EST)

  1. free parameter: Keep it simple with a yes/no value. No "expansion" values or it will bring confusion to the public. Use {{IO}} to discover if the parameter holds a "yes" or "no" value instead of re-coding your own solution. If the parameter is empty, your response is inconsistent. On the one hand, a red unspecified appears, on the other hand the category "Pay to Play" is applied. If you are not sure what to do, do nothing and be consistent with that.
  2. advpack parameter: You changed the name from the current template. This means that ALL the quest pages will need to be updated to change a letter in a parameter. It also means that EVERY template that used this parameter (DPL templates) will need to be changed. Who is going to do that? Since the last time this template was updated some years ago, the quest pages have STILL not been updated. There also needs to be categorization based on adventure pack (see #questloc, adpack categorization above).
  3. name parameter: You also need a |pagename= parameter. The use of this parameter is so you can only apply categories if the parameter pagename and the magic word pagename have the same value. This prevents pages that transclude this template (accidentally or intentionally) from getting categories that do not belong to them.
  4. questtype parameter: Again, you change the name of already existing parameters. There are 2 parameters right now |raid= and |solo only= that provide all the information. And it's much simpler to use 2 parameters for this information because they describe different things. You also forgot the categorization for raids.
  5. level/epic/legendary parameters: You forgot the categorization per level.
  6. solo/normal/etc. parameters: You seem like you care if those parameters have values, but if you use xpcolors and the parameters do not have values then nothing appears (the same thing you want). Remove the "ifeq" coding. Note however, that if you want to use it again someplace else, you do not need to place the parameter value in the place of the letters. Placing nothing works just as well.
  7. reaper parameter: Your reaper xp calculation is wrong. The value you found is multiplied by quest duration as well. If the reaper parameter is empty, you should assume this is a non-reaper quest. Also, apply categorization. "Reaper quests", or "Non-reaper quests".
  8. world parameter: Remove the switch code. When Feywild or any other future world is released, accepting only those worlds means that the template will need to change. Furthermore, Demonweb is not forgotten realms. If someone would want to place this option, they should be able to. And what about quests taking place in multiple worlds (Beyond the Rift)? This parameter needs to accept a comma-separated list of world names and just link the individual names. Also, since you went into the trouble of getting this kind of information for a quest, you should also apply proper categorization. Something like "Quests in the <world> world".
  9. questchain parameter: Instead of yes/no, this should be the name of the quest chain. Also, apply categorization. Something like "<questchain> chain quests".
  10. chaptera/chapterz parameters: Those need descriptive names. I could not understand what their purpose was until I read the code. Better names would be "chapter number" and "total chapters".
  11. order parameter: You are accepting too many values for this (one of them is "finial"?). Keep it simple and strict. Yes/No/Capstone.
  12. flag parameter: If flag is true, say "Requires flagging (see Overview)". If flag is empty/false, say nothing. To add to that, the quest template should finally acknowledge the (already existing) |flagging= parameter and print what is needed to flag in the overview section.
  13. duration parameter: Why would you shorten the accepted values? Keep it strict. very short, short, medium, long, very long. Only those should be accepted and no other. Otherwise, some editors may start placing single letter values and confuse the editors coming after them. Also, where is the categorization?
  14. questacquired parameter: The name is not descriptive. A better name would be "bestow loc" (the same I used in {{Journal entry}}). We currently use the name "zone" which is even worse. However, changing the name of that parameter means that we need to update the quest pages as well as all the other templates. If the name is to be changed, the template should accept both "zone" and the new name. The categorization (which you forgot) also needs to change from "<zone> quests" to "Quests acquired in <zone>". Finally, since quests can be bestowed from multiple locations (for example Desert Caravan), this parameter also needs to accept a comma-separated list of values.
  15. questgiver parameter: The current name is "bestower" and it's pretty descriptive. There's no reason to change that. What needs to change is that it also needs a comma-separated list of values due to quests that have more than one bestower. I see that you print the questgiver as "NPC Contact". This is wrong, since the person that gives the quest is sometimes different than the person receiving the quest. The current name for the receiver is "npc". The bestower parameter also needs some special value for the walk-up quests.
  16. entrance parameter: It could be a bit more descriptive like "entrance loc". It also needs categorization. Something like "Quests in <entrance loc>". I don't understand why you have the switch in the code. Why would anyone ever specify the entrance as "no"? A quest with no dungeon entrance? Those are not quests, they are merely journal entries (and have their own template).
  17. dungeon parameter: The current name is "loc" and it sucks. However, if you are going to change the name, you should accept both parameters. Again, I don't understand the switch code. Every dungeon has a name, no reason there would be a "no" value.
  18. saga parameter: The saga quests are few. I don't see the need to spam "No saga available" in most of the quest infoboxes. If the parameter is left empty, remove the saga section entirely from the infobox.
  19. hsaga#/hsaganame# parameters: The code for those parameters is awful. Use "forargs" code and remove one of those parameters. Why do you need someone to tell you "hsaga1=yes" if there's also "hsaganame1=My saga"? Just supplying the name of the saga that contains the quest should be enough. And why do you need the distinction between heroic/epic/legendary sagas? The names of the sagas contain the word (Epic) in them. If you simply supply a link to the saga, there should be no confusion. Having said all that, my opinion is that the information about sagas should not be given in the quest page, but rather in the saga page. Using a saga template to list all the quests included in that saga, the quest page can then use DPL to collect the names of the sagas that include this quest and display them. So my opinion is that the saga parameters should go away and DPL replace them.
  20. patron parameter: First of all, the patron code is currently working. Why would you use a switch statement like that? Nobody places "AgeNTs OF arGOnNesseN" as a value for you to need to convert everything to lower case. Second, using hard-coded patrons means that every time a new patron is introduced, the quest template needs to be updated with the new patron value. The quest template is admin-protected. Are you personally going to be here on the lamannia update day to add the new patron? Because the other admins certainly won't be. Just look at how awful the code for the quest template is. If it was actually being maintained, we wouldn't need such an update to the template. You also forgot categorization.
  21. favor parameter: If the parameter is left empty, you should make a warning appear instead of expression errors. You should also make the values more compact. Having 4 rows for each favor value takes up a lot of space. "Solo" should actually be "Casual" in case there are multiple difficulties, "Solo" when the quest is solo only and non-existent when the quest is a raid. Also, Casual doesn't award 3.5 favor. The number is rounded down (see Base favor). You also forgot categorization.
  22. chest/collectable/lock/secretdoor/trap parameters: Displaying those in the infobox just takes up space. Also consider a single number value is misleading in most quests. There may be chests that only appear if a rare monster is present. There are champion chests. The party may need to split and not able to access all collectables in the quest. The locks may be pickable but also have keys within the quest. The secret doors and traps may be random. Those quest elements are explained in detail in the |expect=, |traps=, |misc= and |chest= sections.
  23. mappic parameters: Use "forargs". Label each map with a number so the tips section can reference the map number. Do not use extra rows if no maps exist.
  24. General coding notes
    • The editors are going to copy/paste the parameters of the template and fill them up gradually. You need to consider that every parameter will at some point be empty (but still existing) and you need to handle that emptiness gracefully and not show errors/empty lines/incorrect categories/etc. Using {{#switch:{{{parameter|no}}}|no=No value|#default={{{parameter|}}} }} is wrong. In this case, the parameter will exist, but be empty. Because the parameter exists, it will never take the default value of "no" and always go to the "#default" case of the switch. However, because the parameter is empty, you will show nothing. The only way to check if the user has given you a value is to use "#if". Every time you want to place a new row with some information, encapsulate the row in {{#if: {{{parameter|}}} | {{!}}- <!--row start--> {{!}} <!--cell start--> Information: {{{parameter}}} }} (see {{Journal entry}} for how hiding rows is done).
    • Keep the accepted values strict and self-explanatory. Editors have no problem writing the full "very long". Editors seeing "vl" as a value on the other hand may be confused. On that note, every time you want to check if a value is true or false, you should use the {{IO}} template. Most of the templates in the wiki use that and having a standard for which values mean false and which mean true is good.
    • Categorization should be done by the quest template and not the infobox. However, do not forget that the quests need categories because there are templates and other pages that use those categories. This means you need to update the quest template with all the categories mentioned above. A good practice is to have all the categorization in one place and encapsulate it with {{#ifeq:{{FULLPAGENAME}}|{{{pagename|}}} to only apply categories if the template is in the same page as the pagename parameter.
    • Do not use hard-coded values for information that is bound to change like sagas, patrons or worlds. Whatever the user enters (if it's non-empty), assume it's true and show it.
    • Do not bother with misuse of parameters. Showing "Wrong template" if someone puts "challenge" in questtype is not needed. Such simple errors (if they ever happen) are corrected almost immediately by editors.
    • Indent your code so that it is readable by others. Empty characters in front or at the end of values in parser functions are ignored. This means that {{#if:foo|foo|bar}} and {{#if: foo | foo| bar }} are exactly the same. You can use that to have the if-true code in a separate line and the if-false code in another line both properly indented. If you are not inside a parser function and spaces matter, use comments to keep indenting your code. Indenting your code is most needed when there are nested parser functions or long values and it's not immediately apparent where one function starts and ends.
    • Use comma-separated lists for multiple values or "forargs" when the values may contain commas.
    • You forgot the |extreme= parameter.
    • Keep in mind that some quests do not contain much info in the tips section. If you create a very long infobox, then the loot/monster tables of the page will require a huge scroll and leave a large amount of white space. (for example look at the white space in Housekeeping)

Loot "Last Edited" column[edit]

While I understand why "Last Edited" is helpful for named loot, it is hardly the first thing people want to see. I would suggest moving the column from left-most to right-most. Hoopy Froodle (ContribsMessage) 10:07, August 1, 2020 (EDT)

  • I think the "last edited" column is misleading. Having an item page edited recently does not mean that this item is up to date. For example most items show that they have been edited 8 months ago but it's because the bot passed through every item page to add a parameter. Btw, the template in question is {{Named items category}} Faltout (ContribsMessage) 15:05, August 1, 2020 (EDT)
  • The last edited column is very helpful to see when the page was last touched. It's more helpful to see that a page hasn't been touched in 8 years than the ones that say they were touched last year. I'll also note that Most people don't see that column. Only logged in DDOwiki VIP or higher can see that column. DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 09:23, August 5, 2020 (EDT)

Named loot sort order[edit]

Generally speaking, I expect people would want to see heroic loot grouped separately from epic/legendary loot, for quests where both versions are available. Can we change the default primary sort order to ML, with Item as secondary? Hoopy Froodle (ContribsMessage) 10:11, August 1, 2020 (EDT)

  • I believe it's already sorted by ML as a default but with the way that the DPL extension and wiki software work, it doesn't always show up that way. DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 09:24, August 5, 2020 (EDT)
    Template:Named items category#USAGE does confirm |sort= allows you to change the default sort of the table. (- Default: Minimum Level -) and the CODE backs it up: | tablesortcol = {{#switch:{{lc:{{{sort|}}}}}|name|item=1|type=2|enhancements=3|bind=5|quest|quests|location=6|minlevel|#default={{{sort|4}}}}} DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 09:27, August 5, 2020 (EDT)