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Template talk:QTL

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I'm almost back... Once I am back, I will spend some time revamping this template for Epic difficulties and Epic XP... Until then, please be patient. Big Grin ShoeMaker (Contributions Message) 11:18, September 24, 2012 (EDT)

Honestly I don't think this template needs any changes for epics, just add a new table and label it epic. Temp could use a simplified code so one does not have to deal with new lines and aliment but, which I could do. Really could use a new item template that covers 6 same name items like those of druid deep on one page. Bladedge (ContributionsMessage) 13:23, September 24, 2012 (EDT)
I was thinking along the lines of...
Quest Name Quest Level Total Favor Patron  ♣CasualSolo/Casual  ♦NormalNormal  ♥HardHard  ♠EliteElite Epic?
Quest 1 3 7 Patron  ♣500Solo/Casual
 ♣750Epic Casual
 ♦1,000Normal
 ♦1,500Epic Normal
 ♥1,250Hard
 ♥1,875Epic Hard
 ♠1,500Elite
 ♠2,250Epic Elite
Yes
Quest 2 3 7 Patron
♣750
Unavailable
♦1,500
Unavailable
♥1,875
Unavailable
♠2,250
Unavailable
No
Quest 3 3 7 Patron  ♣1,000Solo/Casual
 ♣1,500Epic Casual
 ♦2,000Normal
 ♦3,000Epic Normal
 ♥2,500Hard
 ♥3,750Epic Hard
 ♠3,000Elite
 ♠4,500Epic Elite
Yes
Quest 4 3 7 Patron
♣2,000
Unavailable
♦4,000
Unavailable
♥5,000
Unavailable
♠6,000
Unavailable
No
Total 4 28  ♣4,250Solo/Casual
 ♣2,250Epic Casual
 ♦8,500Normal
 ♦4,500Epic Normal
 ♥10,625Hard
 ♥5,625Epic Hard
 ♠12,750Elite
 ♠6,750Epic Elite
 ●36,125Epic
 ●●19,125Epic

...for an output. -- ShoeMaker (Contributions Message) 13:47, September 24, 2012 (EDT)

I thought about a number of ways, on same line w/ & w/o (), second line, using rowspan, etc. Then there is the users who would be trying to break down the information on whats be shown with a dozen numbers with yes, no. And just decided here be the heroic table and there epic table with out all the extras that weren't being looked for and keep it clean and neat. Bladedge (ContributionsMessage) 15:24, September 24, 2012 (EDT)
I also was considering some kind of mouse-over possible method. I really think it is easier and looks neater all on one page. Just my personal opinion though... ShoeMaker (Contributions Message) 16:08, September 24, 2012 (EDT) (Posted from my BlackBerry Curve 9330)

Epics[edit]

I think it is time to revisit this idea. I know have a manageable grasp on how DPL works mostly, and these tables need a major overhaul. I'm thinking that they should be flat out converted to a phantom template and a DPL call template. Before I start working on that though... Do we want it to be all inline or do we want it split over two lines? I think that doing it as two lines would look less cluttered, but it would make the table less functional by messing with sortability (it could still be done, but would require a lot more hidden magic; which can be a pain). Alternatively, it can be done all on one line, which is fine for people with wide screens, but gets really hard to read for people without. I need some feedback here, and am willing to put together some mockups and take screenshots at various resolutions to see what they look like. Let me know. ShoeMaker (Contributions Message) 09:11, August 10, 2015 (EDT)

  • This has been sitting here as a C:PPoIs for well over a year and I've gotten no feedback at all... I'm going to try it as a single line first because functionality is more important to me than aesthetics. We can go from there later. DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 08:54, January 17, 2017 (EST)
  • Note: I actually started working on this on stream today!
    Change list:
    • Epic column gone
    • Epic values now accepted as parameters:
      |10 = epic/legendary solo\casual
      |11 = epic/legendary normal
      |12 = epic/legendary hard
      |13 = epic/legendary elite
    To be done still:
    • Make XP columns sortable again with a data-sort-value
    • Change order of columns to be | Quest Name | Level | Solo | Norm | Hard | Elite | Patron | Favor |
      Use total row for | Total | # of quests | Solo XP | Norm XP | Hard XP | Elite XP | Total XP | Total Favor |
    • Set up DPL template and use this as part of phantom for it
See EXAMPLES section of template for current appearance. DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 09:52, October 3, 2017 (EDT)

Is there any way to make this template not display the "Unavailable" msg for quests that have no epic version? For example, the table on The Catacombs has "Unavailable" with the red bar printed 32 times which makes the table ugly and much larger than needed. I'm sorry if this is just a work in progress...I don't mean to put undue pressure on. Kkoliver (ContribsMessage) 05:47, January 4, 2018 (EST)

Complete template rework for DPL and versatility[edit]

I've been working hard on my project to make a template for quest tables and I think it's coming along nicely. But let me explain all my thought process from the beginning:

Initial thoughts[edit]

One day I was checking out Favor to see the max favor currently achievable. It hasn't been updated in a while (even though some parts of it mention the latest update) and the numbers don't add up. So, I went to the patron pages instead to see if they listed the correct favor. Each patron page has a different layout and they as well don't have the correct favor.

So with all the DPL tables that existed already for monsters, I thought that it should be entirely possible to calculate max favor using DPL. I started looking into details and my immediate thoughts were that if I had a dynamic table with the quests and their info, it shouldn't be that hard to add columns afterwards. Turns out I was wrong and DPL does not offer any column sums with its table format, but I started working on creating a table of quests similar to The Twelve#Quests since it was the format I liked the most.

Progress[edit]

While I was working and facing the difficulties of getting quest pages to cooperate with what info I was trying to gather, the programmer inside me thought that this DPL table should be parameterized to accomodate more quest listings than just the Category:Patron factions pages. So it became a template using templates. Of course parameterization has its limits (when the parameters needed to do some work exceed the volume of code produced, you should just do what you want explicitly), so it's hard to balance how general of a template it should be.

It's now at the point where there is a template with a simple DPL call (that can be used for more than just quests) and a phantom template that does ALL the work but I'm currently breaking that template into pieces so an editor can assemble them and do exactly what he wants using existing code. There's also a balance there between how abstract the template is (easier to understand) and how much code you need to write to make it work (as well as how much documentation you need to read).

Update: Since the last time I posted, there has been some significant progress. The phantom template (the one that decides how to present the data) is now using a meta template that calculates all the possible table cells and the phantom chooses which cells to display. This means that it's much easier to customize which columns are being shown and how should an editor wish to create a new phantom template. I've also encountered a problem with quests having epic counterparts in a different page. See the talk here: Talk:Different quests that share favor I didn't get much feedback on that, so I chose the 1st version and resolved the issue.

All in all, I'm not entirely sure I've thought of all the problems but it's a big project and I can't think everything alone. So I will start slowly copying the templates to the main namespace and apply them once I've resolved some last technical issues and do some polishing. If anyone cares to have a look at the project and share thoughts/opinions/bugs, speak up below. In any case, I expect people will start responding once the templates are applied and not before. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 18:37, April 17, 2018 (EDT)

Details[edit]

Feedback[edit]

As the templates are nearing completion, I would like some feedback:

  • What is the desired format for each page that needs a quest table? Obviously, patron pages don't need to have patron info and level pages don't need to have the quest level info.
  • Are there any edge cases I need to watch out for? I'm going through all the quests by level to test and quests like Devil Assault (quest) presented some problems that required code modification.
  • Are the templates usable by the average wiki editor? I'm trying to have a full documentation and make the template interface as easy as possible.
  • Is the template code humanly readable? Any coding standards I should employ? I won't be around forever to maintain the templates and we already have too many templates that can't even be read by their creator. Also, code structure helps spot and eliminate bugs.
  • Any features I could add or make space for future addition? I thought about having the loading screen of a quest pop-up when you hover over the quest name. Then thought it may obstruct table view and decided against it.
  • Any other comments?

In my User:Faltout/SandBox#Template tests you will find at least one application of the template at any given time. However, I'm changing them quite frequently to test more quests and debug so I'm leaving an example below. Hope to see some feedback :) Faltout (ContribsMessage) 14:16, March 26, 2018 (EDT)

Replies[edit]

Leave your reply here:

I never delved into DPL, looks complicated. I do like the result though. In general, these aren't templates that an average Joe has to use; it seems like once the pages are set up, all is going to work automatically. When a new adventure pack or patron is introduced, I assume that even the average Joe would be able to copy the short DPL call and replace category name in it.

Anyway, if this works, it will eliminate quite a lot of tedious editing and math to update the zillion articles about quest by XY. And standardized look is also nice to have. So thanks! -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 01:12, March 27, 2018 (EDT)

Example[edit]

Example #1:

{{User:Faltout/SandBox/Quests in category table
  | categories = The Twelve patron quests
  | phantom = User:Faltout/SandBox/Quest table row
  | notcategories = History
}}
Quest name Level Max favor Free to Play Acquired in Bestowed by  ♣CasualSolo/Casual  ♦NormalNormal  ♥HardHard  ♠EliteElite Epic
19 18 No Amrath Mystichaze Shastien  ♣3,723Solo/Casual  ♦6,432Normal  ♥6,658Hard  ♠6,885Elite No
17 18 No The Tower of the Twelve Krannoch Flamehand  ♣2,958Solo/Casual  ♦5,124Normal  ♥5,317Hard  ♠5,510Elite No
15 / 31 18 No Meridia Trull Knopper  ♣3,254Solo/Casual
 ♣15,607Epic Casual
 ♦5,655Normal
 ♦26,672Epic Normal
 ♥5,886Hard
 ♥27,331Epic Hard
 ♠6,118Elite
 ♠27,991Epic Elite
Both
19 18 No Amrath Gustor Miles  ♣1,486Solo/Casual  ♦2,566Normal  ♥2,654Hard  ♠2,742Elite No
15 18 Yes The Twelve Magus Littleton  ♣2,378Solo/Casual  ♦4,132Normal  ♥4,300Hard  ♠4,467Elite No
17 21 No The Tower of the Twelve Elawyn Thwr  ♣3,792Solo/Casual  ♦6,570Normal  ♥6,819Hard  ♠7,067Elite No
18 / 26 21 No The Twelve Housewarming Invitation  ♣2,926Solo/Casual
 ♣10,853Epic Casual
 ♦5,060Normal
 ♦18,612Epic Normal
 ♥5,244Hard
 ♥19,136Epic Hard
 ♠5,428Elite
 ♠19,659Epic Elite
Both
17 21 No The Tower of the Twelve Horace Neble  ♣3,110Solo/Casual  ♦5,386Normal  ♥5,590Hard  ♠5,793Elite No
18 / 26 21 No The Twelve Verona Jethro  ♣3,492Solo/Casual
 ♣12,961Epic Casual
 ♦6,040Normal
 ♦22,230Epic Normal
 ♥6,260Hard
 ♥22,857Epic Hard
 ♠6,480Elite
 ♠23,484Epic Elite
Both
17 21 No The Twelve Rorry Malcanus  ♣3,485Solo/Casual  ♦6,036Normal  ♥6,265Hard  ♠6,493Elite No
18 / 26 21 No The Twelve Kier d'Phiarlan  ♣2,659Solo/Casual
 ♣9,861Epic Casual
 ♦4,599Normal
 ♦16,909Epic Normal
 ♥4,766Hard
 ♥17,384Epic Hard
 ♠4,933Elite
 ♠17,859Epic Elite
Both
16 24 No The Vale of Twilight Walk-up  ♣5,359Solo/Casual  ♦9,300Normal  ♥9,688Hard  ♠10,036Elite No
16 24 No The Vale of Twilight Walk-up  ♣4,860Solo/Casual  ♦8,433Normal  ♥8,766Hard  ♠9,099Elite No
16 24 No The Vale of Twilight Walk-up  ♣3,924Solo/Casual  ♦7,099Normal  ♥7,379Hard  ♠7,659Elite No
16 24 No The Vale of Twilight Walk-up  ♣3,900Solo/Casual  ♦6,766Normal  ♥7,033Hard  ♠7,299Elite No
16 24 No The Vale of Twilight Twilight Canyon (walk-up)  ♣4,284Solo/Casual  ♦7,433Normal  ♥7,726Hard  ♠8,020Elite No
18 27 No The Marketplace Delvarrion Iravati  ♦8,200Normal  ♥8,500Hard  ♠8,800Elite No
18 27 No The Marketplace Brunaccio Patroclus  ♦8,200Normal  ♥8,500Hard  ♠8,800Elite No
17 33 No Meridia Aaseamah Screven  ♦11,540Normal  ♥11,980Hard  ♠12,420Elite No
32 36 Yes The Marketplace Niara Tonant  ♦35,340Epic Normal  ♥36,194Epic Hard  ♠37,050Epic Elite Yes
Total 20
Quests
459
Total favor
2
Free
 ♣55,590Solo/Casual
 ♣49,282Epic Casual
 ♦124,571Normal
 ♦119,763Epic Normal
 ♥129,331Hard
 ♥122,902Epic Hard
 ♠134,049Elite
 ♠126,043Epic Elite
5
Epic

Example #2:

{{User:Faltout/SandBox/Quests in category table
  | categories = Three-Barrel Cove quests
  | phantom = User:Faltout/SandBox/Quest table row
  | notcategories = History
}}
Quest name Level Max favor Free to Play Acquired in Bestowed by  ♣CasualSolo/Casual  ♦NormalNormal  ♥HardHard  ♠EliteElite Epic
5 9 No Three-Barrel Cove Lars Riflee  ♣709Solo/Casual  ♦1,266Normal  ♥1,349Hard  ♠1,433Elite No
5 9 No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣1,230Solo/Casual  ♦2,200Normal  ♥2,350Hard  ♠2,500Elite No
7 12 No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣1,500Solo/Casual  ♦2,600Normal  ♥2,820Hard  ♠2,980Elite No
5 12 No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣2,140Solo/Casual  ♦3,833Normal  ♥4,100Hard  ♠4,366Elite No
6 12 No Three-Barrel Cove Red Tom  ♣1,320Solo/Casual  ♦2,350Normal  ♥2,500Hard  ♠2,650Elite No
25 12
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Dirty Vingus  ♣12,209Epic Casual  ♦20,957Epic Normal  ♥21,564Epic Hard  ♠22,173Epic Elite Yes
5 12
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Laurent Chastel  ♣2,056Solo/Casual  ♦3,684Normal  ♥3,940Hard  ♠4,196Elite No
5 12
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣1,723Solo/Casual  ♦3,086Normal  ♥3,300Hard  ♠3,513Elite No
5 12
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣1,620Solo/Casual  ♦2,900Normal  ♥3,100Hard  ♠3,300Elite No
25 12
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣14,617Epic Casual  ♦25,091Epic Normal  ♥25,821Epic Hard  ♠26,550Epic Elite Yes
25 12
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Marteen Worley  ♣11,457Epic Casual  ♦19,665Epic Normal  ♥20,235Epic Hard  ♠20,805Epic Elite Yes
(heroic: Old Grey Garl)
25 15
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣11,575Epic Casual  ♦20,181Epic Normal  ♥20,767Epic Hard  ♠21,352Epic Elite Yes
7 15
(shared)
No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣1,908Solo/Casual  ♦3,385Normal  ♥3,590Hard  ♠3,796Elite No
25 21 No Three-Barrel Cove Unknown  ♣11,231Epic Casual  ♦19,277Epic Normal  ♥19,836Epic Hard  ♠20,394Epic Elite Yes
Total 14
Quests
126
Total favor
0
Free
 ♣14,206Solo/Casual
 ♣61,089Epic Casual
 ♦25,304Normal
 ♦105,171Epic Normal
 ♥27,049Hard
 ♥108,223Epic Hard
 ♠28,734Elite
 ♠111,274Epic Elite
5
Epic