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Borror0 needs your help[edit]

It seems this might require your access or skill level. --Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 02:41, January 17, 2017 (EST)

Looks like this could be solved (without direct access) by using UserMerge twice? --Cru121

Emotes[edit]

Hey! Respectful disagreement re Emotes. Maybe just need their own subsection - see my thoughts here: Talk:Emote. No rush, hardly time-critical. :) C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 23:21, January 8, 2016 (EST)

Bump - Been a week, so I'll go ahead and just separate the 2 sub-groups on the existing Chat/Commands page in a couple days if you have no comment. All good, later, C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 15:22, January 15, 2016 (EST)
  • I've been stupid busy. What was this conversation about? ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 16:31, January 15, 2016 (EST)
    • NP, figured as much. In a nutshell, a week ago I had moved "emotes" to their own page, and you reverted, keeping them combined w/ /commands on the chat page. I understand WIKI "KISS" reasoning etc., but I feel they ~are~ markedly diff than in-game /commands. I think they should (at least) have their own separate subsection on same /chat command page. (full reasoning here: Talk:Emote). Unless you object, I'll do that w/ code that had been on separate page. C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 18:27, January 15, 2016 (EST)
      • I thought I had said it's fine to put them in their own section on the page, but not to split it out into it's own page. Too many pages on the same topic makes it harder to search for topics. I may not of, my memory isn't what it used to be... ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 21:04, January 15, 2016 (EST)

Hireling pages[edit]

On another topic - the Table on this hirelings page was too messed up to read, and I didn't know how to fix it w/ Template:Hirelings_phantom. I copied the table code from the main List of Hirelings page, but that one doesn't use the Template. I ~did~ save all existing code as a comment below the (now legible) current table. You were the last to edit that page, so figured you'd know best how to proceed, if any correction needs to be made at all. (If you want to line me out, happy to do the work, just lemme know what/how, or where to read up on it.) Thx, C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 15:22, January 15, 2016 (EST)

  • You should never use T:Hirelings phantom. All of the hireling pages are likely borked right now as it will be a major project for me to go through and build all the new templates for all of them. Still on my list of things to do, but it is a fairly complicated template system (yes, system), so it'll be awhile before I can get around to it. You'd have to have lots of template/DPL experience to figure it out, so it's likely best left to someone with that level of knowledge (maybe Zav or ... not sure who else has that level of knowledge that is active). ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 16:31, January 15, 2016 (EST)
    • I found it there (but broken), that's the only reason I even asked. K, old-school hard-coded table works for now, and I (clearly) need the practice anyway. C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 18:27, January 15, 2016 (EST)

29 Edits and NOT counting...[edit]

btw - When I first landed here a week ago, you had edited my User home page by removing full code to Edit Counter and replacing w/ a Template for same - cool in theory, but it seems to be "not" counting, stuck on "29 and counting" for well over +100 edits since. Best fix? Thoughts? C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 18:27, January 15, 2016 (EST)

  • Not automatic (yet). Manually update it once every tier or 300-500 edits... ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 21:07, January 15, 2016 (EST)

All Good[edit]

In order - Agreed, will do; (Resolved); & Roger that. Afaic this can all be wiped clean. Get some sleep, brother. o7 C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 01:42, January 16, 2016 (EST)

New account welcome[edit]

You asked me about a design for MW:Welcomecreation-msg. I like the way this looks and works. Obviously it has a completely different purpose. You could change the sort button into next and previous buttons or a submit button. You could have one question at a time or all of them on the screen at once. I figure the code for selecting categories from a list could be used to ask which servers the user plays on. Are the question responses going to be used to create a first talk page post or a blurb on the user page? If so, I would suggest not automatically saving but preloading it so the user has the option to edit it before saving. — Zav(T·C) 19:06, January 16, 2016 (EST)

  • Funny you mention it. lol I just created a TESTNEW account to see what creating an account currently does to get an idea for working on this project. I was thinking a simpler version of The Wikipedia Adventure customized for DDOwiki. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 20:26, January 16, 2016 (EST)
    • That would work too. I've never run through TWA, but it would be useful to have a learning exercise for new editors. — Zav(T·C) 20:40, January 16, 2016 (EST)

Why keep page?[edit]

Why are we keeping this page Talk:Trade_between_charactors? It reads more like a forum post, there is no actual article behind the "talk", the Trade page covers it all plus more, and (almost) nothing links to it. If there is a reason, what's the rationale that I'm missing? (Also, a quick edit note as to ~why~ you are reverting will help me understand local Wiki policy better, thx!) C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 17:39, January 18, 2016 (EST)

  • Talk pages are not blanked or deleted. They keep record of discussions and are suppose to look like forum posts. They are for wiki discussion, not for visitor research. :) ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 17:54, January 18, 2016 (EST)
Sure, but they are supposed to discuss the article in question, not be created in and of themselves, right? That page was never "for Wiki discussion", the answer was never molded into any page (until Trade) - it was a player's personal question, pure and simple. Which is what the forums are for. Maybe move it to the Talk on that Trade page?C-Hound (ContribsMessage)

Regarding Template:Stat[edit]

No issue with you reverting my change, but then why is User:JJMC89 policing my edits for something he is either wrong about or that doesn't matter? See Item:Diamond of Spooky Wisdom +2 and Item:Diamond of Spooky Intelligence +2. I don't appreciate nitpicking on things that are irrelevant and I don't like being pulled between 2 admins who differ on what is correct or incorrect. Thanks. Susalona (ContribsMessage) 21:44, January 20, 2016 (EST)

  • The reason it is all caps in the example section of the template is to show that the template is coded cleverly enough to not care about what case is used with the template. That said, it's good practice to use the normal proper case on articles (knowing the the template won't care if you accidentally type SPooky or sPooky instead of Spooky) for the sake of readability. Zav polices my edits sometimes too, it doesn't break anything and calms an apparent pet peeve of his, so I just let it be. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 22:03, January 20, 2016 (EST)

Template:Wizardry[edit]

Looking to update this but running into a couple issues and would like a couple pointers if possible.

  1. Old items (pre-U29) used Wizardry I to XI for 25 to 275 spellpoints. Newer items use integers, and those integers are exactly the spellpoints you get. The current template uses something that converts integers to roman numerals. I was wondering if a reverse tool existed (convert roman numeral to integer) and if we can then multiply this result by 25 prior to returning it, but I'm not sure where to even begin looking for this.
  2. In general, what style of coding does the Wiki use, and what's a good place to learn this code better?

Thanks in advance. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 17:39, February 2, 2016 (EST)

  • There is {{Roman2Dec}} (available from the "Template Functions" version of the edit tools below). You're also going to want to use {{Int}} to display numbers probably. As for style of coding, it's not really 'defined' since only like 3 people do it, but you can probably get the idea based on checking out existing templates. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 18:19, February 2, 2016 (EST)
    • I have it completely done up in Python, and working relatively well. I just can't find some of the tools I need to get it done in wikicode. I've posted the Python version (including a romantodec conversion) in the discussion page User_Talk:Habreno/Wizardry for the proposed rewrite; if there's some source I'm missing please link it. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 17:29, February 15, 2016 (EST)
      • YAY! I think we have it! See User:Habreno/Wizardry. Still needs the Categorization, but that's not as difficult. Of importance: None of the old pages should have to be updated, unless they expressed the Wizardry in an integer format instead of a Roman Numeral format. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 00:57, February 29, 2016 (EST)
        • Updated with a second parameter (which defaults to Enhancement if unlisted, to keep compatibility with old templates). A lot of items will need updating to properly show (a lot of items used Ints instead of Roman Numerals...); I could go through them manually or perhaps there's a bot that'd be able to do it? Habreno (ContribsMessage) 16:21, February 29, 2016 (EST)
          • I could do it with Kobold sneak (Contribs • Message), but I'd need a list of pages and what changes need to be made. Also, those items will probably all need new screenshots anyways. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 17:30, February 29, 2016 (EST)
            • Awesome. I'll throw a list of pages on User_Talk:Habreno/Wizardry under its own section. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 18:18, February 29, 2016 (EST)
              • The list will probably be something like Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Wizardry, no? ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 18:36, February 29, 2016 (EST)
                • Not necessarially; most of it's simply item pages. A lot of the other pages on that list are autofilled by various categories and don't actually have anything on them specifically to update. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 20:34, February 29, 2016 (EST)
                EDIT: It appears that some of the Category pages may in fact also need inclusion on the page list. Let me go through that entire list of pages and see if it's a better starting point. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 20:41, February 29, 2016 (EST)

U29 Armors[edit]

I noticed that the armors availaible from Legendary Tempests Spine and Legendary Hox show PARRYING numbers in the tooltip (barter box) that differ from the current wiki pages. I cannot confirm which is correct as I don't own any of these armors. If someone can confirm I can amend the pages (or not) as neccessary. Eddivan (ContribsMessage) 17:37, May 24, 2016 (EDT)

  • Do you have a specific list of pages? I have some of the armors, and could probably get others pretty easy from guildies linking or whatnot. Thanks. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 17:48, May 24, 2016 (EDT)

Monster Manual[edit]

I'd appreciate your input on what to do with Jeets Shimis. Under the "I Dream of Jeets section", he has a monster manual type of Halfling, with a comment stating "unkillable", but he's not in MM. It's not that he's missing from MM, because he doesn't get killed, and therefore should not appear in MM. What would you do with him? Give him a MM type of None?

Same deal with Rand. I suspect Super-Ego can't be killed either, and therefore also falls into this category. Eeepy (ContribsMessage) 18:16, July 2, 2016 (EDT)

  • He's not killable, and I wouldn't consider him a monster. I found another one like that and I changed it to use the NPC template instead. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 19:01, July 2, 2016 (EDT)

Edit[edit]

looking good. like the additions (new information). see your section on the very bottom? :P--Uurlock (ContribsMessage) 13:47, September 5, 2016 (EDT)

Single monster and list of monsters in one habitat[edit]

Hey there.

This finally looks good enough to ask for review. All of it is still unoptimized, kludgy-but-solid-enough and expected to change as necessary, but for the first time it does what I want it to do. I didn't even try automatic categorization, since I still have difficulties understanding the flow of some of that in {{Monster}} and elsewhere, so if this gets green-lighted, it will probably need your expertise. Moreover, it does away with the numbered habitatNN and hnoteNN: forgive me, but while trying to make this system work with them, I got blinded by the flash of genius of how to make it work without them. As I said, it's all expected to change as necessary.

Let me show you what I have now:

The first two links go to monster pages using an almost-standard {{Monster}} and a few other templates and phantom templates.

Magefire Cannon has its auxiliary templates inside its own parameter "habitat", unnumbered to get skipped by {{Monster}}, one row per aux template. Kobold Shaman has its aux templates outside of {{Monster}}, with some aux templates exploded for readability. They all work the same, as far as this system is concerned.

Both pages are full of overkill extraneous and/or unlikely and/or plain wrong data, in order to try functionality of the whole system. Both pages sport a dpl table that I believe should eventually be embedded in {{Monster}}, with all the due modifications. The dpl code in each page queries the very same page itself, pulls out data from {{Monster}} first; then, row by row, the queries override default data from {{Monster}} if there's a same-named parameter in the aux template corresponding to the habitat in question. This can (and most likely will) produce a table with mostly identical rows: I've left Kobold Shaman actual data almost intact in order to show just that. On the other hand there are examples of monsters with severely variable data from habitat to habitat.

The third link goes directly to a few examples of what in my mind should become the monsters section of {{Quest}}. It works similarly, but with no self-querying; row by row, dpl pulls out default monster data first, then a sub-query checks aux templates, and if the habitat is the right one, it overrides default monster data as necessary.

As you can see, the testbed quests don't even exist. I planned to use User:Aldyron/Sandbox/Missing in Action as a testbed for interaction with {{Quest}}, but I doubt it will be necessary.

Oh, while I was at it, I put in a new parameter called "group", that I intended to suggest for inclusion in {{Monster}}, useful for, say Devil Assault (quest) or The Storm Horns.

I'm at your disposal to discuss the whole thing, but not before tomorrow: right now I have 16:9, rectangular, pipe-shape-slotted eyes and I don't want to see any more dpl code for at least 24 hours! :-))

Aldyron (ContribsMessage) 16:35, October 11, 2016 (EDT)

  • I see what you've done and it looks like a lot of extra end user work (which the purpose of the changes is to reduce long term end user work). I'll have to look at it again and maybe play with it a little, but it looks over complicated at first glance. Maybe I can make it simpler. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 19:38, October 11, 2016 (EDT)
  • On that matter, I'd like to point out that numbering similar-named parameters, while useful for programming purposes, is also extra end-user work. I silently did the extra work until now, but since the topic came out... Case in point, Lesser Gray Ooze, freshly edited: I deleted two habitatNN lines, so after that I had to edit another 29 lines (i.e., the whole habitatNN/hnoteNN block) to correct the numbering. Just my opinion.
Aldyron (ContribsMessage) 19:47, October 12, 2016 (EDT)
  • It's not really extra work. Once they are all gone through and initially set to the current set of the game, it's just a matter of adding them as they appear in new quests. It's unlikely that once a monster is in a quest it will ever be removed. For that matter, the template should allow for a certain size gap in numbering to make it so renumbering manually is not needed (I can write a simple bot script for maint purposes but it won't affect the display any). The English Wikipedia allows for a gap of 5 numbers per set (so, 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 12 is fine but 1, 2, 3, 24, 25, 30 is not). ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 20:20, October 12, 2016 (EDT)
    In fact, I just created T:Monster/sandbox to test the issue with gaps, they don't have to be renumbered at all. So, no additional work there. Smile ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 20:34, October 12, 2016 (EDT)

Broken template[edit]

It appears you made changes to Template:Enhancement table/item that broke it. Witness the formatting errors on nearly every row of Pale_Master_enhancements. Hoopy Froodle (ContribsMessage) 18:17, October 12, 2016 (EDT)

  • Thanks. I was aware of that. It's actually the usages of the template that are broken and the template that was fixed. The template used to have a hack job in it to accommodate cases where the link was manually set to ... or . We are no longer doing that horrible way of seeing what pages are missing and are instead just going with redlink page names. Every page that used to use that old style of formatting will need to be updated. It'll just be a matter of time and it should all be fixed, not something I can bot edit - needs to be done manually one at a time. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 18:25, October 12, 2016 (EDT)

SR Items[edit]

Hello. I can't find SR in "Items by effect group" and in "Items by effect". Please say, I didn't find them or they don't exist. UL (ContribsMessage) 15:16, October 16, 2016 (EDT)

Help! I broke a page ..[edit]

I was throwing some data from Korthos into the Small Brown Spider monster page. I do not know much about the coding on this wiki page, so I just cut and paste a few elements. I cut and paste the habitat1 line and renamed it, and added a cut and paste of the Xpcolors line. Now the page has some doubling issue, and it shows code instead of links..  ?? what did I do wrong..?? — previous unsignedPlease sign posts using ~~~~ comment by Graendahl ( c |d| r| b) at 16:10, December 18, 2016 (UTC)

  • Fixed ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 11:14, December 18, 2016 (EST)
    • Thank you, but what did I do worng? Besides "oops" forgetting to sign my post. Graendahl (ContribsMessage) 11:19, December 18, 2016 (EST)
      • See T:Monster#USAGE, in particular pay attention to the bottom of the Notes: section for usage of the |habitat#=, which I just updated for clarity, and |hnote#=. Templates, like {{Monster}} used there, are very specific, syntactic, and case sensitive. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 11:40, December 18, 2016 (EST)

Bulk Edits[edit]

Hey Shoe, thanks for the tips. I've re-read the minor edit page and I've found where I was getting caught up on whether or not or not it should be minor. Apologies for any trouble that caused. I do have a question about the bulk edits, though. When I was fixing the DDO Store page, clicking edit at the top did not bring up the entire page, and most of the entries had to be changed manually. When I went to edit the guild page, I assumed it was the same concept, hence the massive amount of edits. Looking over it now I see that the edit found at the top of that page would have allowed me to just ctrl + f and replace almost every instance with a single edit. Is there a way to tell whether or not it can be bulk edited other than manually checking each time? Again, sorry for any trouble I caused and thanks for your help! Abolisher (ContribsMessage) 17:15, January 11, 2017 (EST)

  • You can always edit the whole page in one shot... Look for the Read | Edit | Page History | ... links at the top of the page and click on Edit which should open the whole page for editing (instead of the little edit links for each section). Alternatively, you can use the keyboard shortcut of Alt+ Shift+E to open the page in edit mode... There are very few pages that don't work that way. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 22:19, January 11, 2017 (EST)

moving around of Wall of Wood and similar[edit]

My understanding of the release notes is different. When reaper was introduced, some items from that pack started to drop without some enhancements (probably because those items have N/H/E version, but they didn't have a reaper version, so items pulled on reaper were missing some enchantments). Now they are fixing it - players can upgrade they incomplete items in the stone of change. TL;DR: Imho there's no need for any history business (even if, it should probably only apply to HE and EE versions of the items).--Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 10:50, March 14, 2017 (EDT)

Yeah, that's my understanding as well - items are currently dropping as broken, and they are putting in a method to fix them; they're not actually changing the items. "Outdated" was probably the wrong word to use in the notes. - LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 21:17, March 14, 2017 (EDT)
  • I'll have to research the issue then. I was under the impression there were new "updated" versions of the item like when they updated all the GH/Abbot gear to use the seals. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 00:46, March 15, 2017 (EDT)

Template:Named Item[edit]

I know this is a work in progress, and has been for a while (and the coding challenges are above me) - but you are aware that all named item pages now list Minimum Level = 20, and have for several days, right? Wondering, if ETA is not "soon", whether temporarily going back to using old template might be an idea while new one is sandboxed toward functionality? Or whatever the best short-term fix might be. C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 19:22, March 30, 2017 (EDT)

  • Nope, I wasn't aware of that. This is the first report. Like I said on our Discord chat server, please report any bugs with the changes as soon as you see them and I'll take care of it as quick as possible. I'm now on mobile until Sunday night, but I know exactly what would cause that. I'll try to fix it now, but it may have to wait until Sunday night because it's not worth reverting 4,000 pages with 1-3 edits each. Thanks for letting me know, just wish it was in the first 24 hours when I was home on computer. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 19:44, March 30, 2017 (EDT)
  • Done last night. The |epic= won't work until I get home, but that was better than most items showing wrong ML. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 08:19, March 31, 2017 (EDT)
  • Hi, regarding Template:Items by equipment slot; would it make sense to extend it to cosmetic armor and cosmetic headwear? Or quiver? --Cru121
    • Yep, already on my todo list. I want to get the existing stuff all working and updated to the new system before I start adding in the new stuffs. :) Since you're not on our Discord chat server, I went through and got all the categories working again last night. |epic= is the only thing still not working, and I've no intention of fixing that for a little while. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 08:41, April 3, 2017 (EDT)

Hey - re "...just wish it was in the first 24 hours..." - I would have, but there was this big "WORK IN PROGRESS" sign on the page, so I took that at face value and figured you were already on it. Won't assume next time. (Btw, you were just working on the Racial Enhancments template while I was on the Enhancements articles - thought I'd broken it somehow. Phew!) Later daze! C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 10:38, April 3, 2017 (EDT)

  • Hi dee ho, there's some misalignment between T:named item and T:named shield, resulting in MDB and Damage not populating. I think I fixed the MDB thing in the shield template, and failed to fix the damage thing. I probably could fix it, but I don't know your master plan here and I don't want to mess with the templates too much. --Cru121
  • Hi there, seems some other stats are not properly displaying either like Durability, even thou it is given. Example : Item:Dwarven_Brawler's_Wraps. SisAmethyst (ContribsMessage) 17:32, July 21, 2017 (EDT)
    • Fixed -- Best/fastest way to report these and get me to fix them is by popping into our Discord chat server Wink  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 20:24, July 21, 2017 (EDT)

Solo only raids[edit]

Quest articles that include the parameters solo only and raids are listed as Solo only Raids in Category:DDO Compendium. This probably requires a fix in Template:Compendium phantom. --Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 06:42, April 12, 2017 (EDT)

  • Thanks. I'm still working on a major overhaul of all of the Quest/Item/etc pages and how they interact with each other. I'll be sure to make sure that's working right when I get to it. :) I'm assuming that you mean if the parameters are empty but exist. Shouldn't be too hard of a fix. :) ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 13:15, April 12, 2017 (EDT)

Conflict with new monster 'Flare'[edit]

In the new quest Third Time's a Charm there is an optional elemental named Flare. I've added all the other bosses in this quest but there is already a page named Flare that I don't want to overwrite. Not sure how to handle this situation, do we need to make a disambiguation page for him? Aeranda (ContribsMessage) 20:31, July 14, 2017 (EDT)

  • I've moved the hireling page and created a disambiguation page in its place. You can create a new page for the elemental. — Zav(T·C) 21:05, July 14, 2017 (EDT)

Spell resistance changes[edit]

They may have updated the spell resistance numbers with the last update. It's been a while since I made a SR item.

I just made a level 10 cloak and the spell resistance is 13. Your tool reports it as 19.

Messed up links for Item categories[edit]

Was on the page of Item:Signet of the Silver Flame when I attempted to click on the link for the Dark Scarab Powder. But instead as I expected to bring me to the page of Item:Dark Scarab Powder it send me straight to Named quest rewards. So that was odd and I thought I try to get there from the other direction. So I went to the Necropolis page and clicked on the Necropolis Scarab powder collector link of Squire Rale and as well went to the Named quest rewards collection overview. Wouldn't be a big issue if those items but they arent. Ok I thought, maybe just because a collection is missing so I actually created the Category:Necropolis Scarab collectable a bit similar to Category:Emerald Claw Nugget reward_items however only including the section. This is rendering fine in teh Categorie istelf but it still don't show up. SisAmethyst (ContribsMessage) 18:11, October 1, 2017 (EDT)

  • Okay. So, the link you clicked on for Dark Scarab Powder actually is a section link that is suppose to go to Named quest rewards#Dark Scarab Powder (permalink) except that section (== Dark Scarab Powder ==) doesn't exist since Zav (Contribs • Message) modified the page with this edit to use Help:Extension:NiceCategoryList instead of being all typed out due to template inclusion size issues (IIRC). I'd value community feedback on how we should resolve the issue (which I'd be happy to carry out Tuesday morning on DDOwiki Talk).  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 20:45, October 1, 2017 (EDT)
    • Yes I saw that, which is why I thought creating a Category for those items would foul the NCL to actually include it, but while it shows the content on the page itself, it also state on the bottom line This category currently contains no pages or media. . As such I guess it will not be included as it is considered empty. So as I see it there are three options: 1. we add (like in the past) elements that are not part of the category manually to this page, with the risk it will be cluttered again like before. 2. we actually add those items to the created category, so that they show up but then they may not be groupped by the scarab powder. 3. we create a dedicated page for reward items that are not directly quest related. SisAmethyst (ContribsMessage) 14:41, October 2, 2017 (EDT)
    • Just tried this and added manually the category to Lumric's Longbow and voila it shows up. Not with the item, but now at least the category name itself is listed. Question thou, why does an item like Blood's_Bellows show up in the category of Category:Emerald_Claw_Nugget_reward_items by itself and as such be visible in Named quest rewards ? SisAmethyst (ContribsMessage) 15:16, October 2, 2017 (EDT)

Monsters: same name, different identity[edit]

I was updating CRs for some of the monsters in the Servants of the Overlord quests, and noticed issues of overlap between those quests and the Stromvauld's Mine quests:

  • same name, different CR, different graphic, (possibly different powers?), same MM entry: Drow Wizard
  • same name, different CR, different graphic, (possibly different powers?), different MM entry: Drow Warrior
  • same name, different CR, same graphic?, (possibly different powers?), no MM entry: Jarilith (vs Ruins of Gianthold)

These differences cause problems for the CR extractor on quests. One solution would be to split the entries. Something like: Drow Warrior (Stromvauld%s Mine) and Drow Warrior (Web of Chaos). Possibly also Drow Warrior (Forgotten Realms) as the Forgotten Realms / Underdark drow use different graphics to the Eberron drow - I don't know if their powers or CR differ. Disambiguation pages could link the versions.

PS: you made an error when cleaning up the Drow Wizard - CR 20 is normal hard in Servants of the Overlord, not epic hard. Leaving it unfixed until we figure how to represent this.

Nom (ContribsMessage) 22:47, November 5, 2017 (EST)

  • I'd think a single page is sufficient. Simply add multiple sections if they're multiple monster entities with the same name in different locations (as long as the entities are indeed different and not the same entity in multiple places). CRs don't belong in hnotes, they belong in the CR section. If it's actually two different monsters, then it should have been indicated as such. I simply moved all the CRs up the page to the correct section. Since there was a CR for HH that was in line with the HN and HE I assumed, like has happened many times before, that it was meant to be EH for the CR. Also, I'm thinking about redoing the monster template to allow for multiple CR values based on quest level. I'm guessing there is a formula, but I've not had time to work it out yet.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 22:58, November 5, 2017 (EST)
What would you consider "two different monsters"? Obviously, the Drow Warrior in Servants of the Overlord is the same as for The Spinner of Shadows (same CR, same abilities, same graphic). But what about:
Some games have the same monster at varying power levels. As far as I can tell, DDO usually has a single "instance" of each monster, varying only by difficultly level (with the exception of some of the festival quest monsters, which seem to exist at fully scaling CRs). This makes me think that the different "Drow Warriors" are all "different" monsters that happen to have the same name text. Which suggests to me that they should have different Wiki entries, if we can solve the name disambiguation issue.
Nom (ContribsMessage) 00:49, November 6, 2017 (EST)
PS: the comment about the Drow Wizard was evidence that the current mechanism is confusing when the game re-uses monster names, not a complaint about the edit. :)
  • I'm going to say that different graphics is probably two different monsters. This is most likely to occur in cases where it's the same monster in two different realms. That said, there are monsters known to have different graphics and definitely being the same monster (eg Arraetrikos), so I'm not sure. I've asked for more data and opinions/thoughts of the matter on DDOwiki's Discord chat server. Feel free to pop over there and see if you can't encourage more discussion on the topic as well.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 17:11, November 6, 2017 (EST)
A related issue is that the automatic CR lookup for quest tables breaks if the "same" monster exists in different quests. To me, the quest -> monster linking seems the most useful part of the process.
  • Workaround: create a separate monster page when the CR differs. However, there's been a pushback against doing this.
  • Fix: add a 'hcrN' entry to the MM habitat mechanism, that allows a custom CR entry for a particular quest. The purist in me thinks that cleanest way to do this is allow multiple CR lines under CR (e.g. cr1, cr2, ...) and then allow the habitat entries to cross reference them. This makes it very easy to see that (say) Wolf exists with two different CR versions, and then the habitats can pick the version they want. It also means that (say) updating heroic hard CR for wolf in Disciples of Shar also updates it for Escape Plan, which is (a) usually desirable and (b) how all the other pages work. I looked into doing this myself but am not familiar enough with the template language.
  • Alternative: some sort of "variants" sub-entry for monsters to handle different CRs / pictures / etc that can be auto-linked back to the main monster page.
Nom (ContribsMessage) 16:18, November 29, 2017 (EST)

User Rien[edit]

Why did you feel the need to rename her userpage without her consent and against her express desires? It doesn't matter *who* she is, you have absolutely NO RIGHT to rename somebody else's account without permission. Please return her account name back to "Rien", as she prefers immediately. LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 21:04, December 12, 2017 (EST)

  • As noted in the edit summary, she requested the rename. I'd be happy to change it back if she'd like to request it. The categorization needs to stay on the page in some form though.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 21:11, December 12, 2017 (EST)
  • In fact... I'm frustrated and annoyed that she's complaining through other editors again instead of resolving her issue herself with a rename that she requested. I'm leaving it up to another list of 6 bureaucrats to deal with as I've indicated in the #administrators'-noticeboard channel of our Discord chat server
Technical_13 - Today at 9:18 PM
@Bureaucrat would one of you like to deal with the "Lynn" situation.  I'm frustrated that she's complaining about the rename that she asked for.  The categorization needs to stay on the page; it's a confirmed account.  If she wants to make another account that isn't confirmed, I'm fine with that as well.  Thanks.
 👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 21:21, December 12, 2017 (EST)
  • YOU tagged her as SSG, and YOU renamed her account, against her specific requests. She wants to rename anonymous, and that's HER choice, not YOURS. - LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 21:35, December 12, 2017 (EST)
    • She confirmed the account. She requested the rename. She's welcome to make a new account named U:Rien and not confirm it. Please see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ownership_of_content#User_pages specifically "Wikipedia offers wide latitude to users to manage their user space as they see fit. Nevertheless, they are not personal homepages, and are not owned by the user. They are part of Wikipedia and must serve its primary purposes; in particular, user talk pages make communication and collaboration among editors easier. These functions must not be hampered by ownership behavior." -- Unless we have an overriding policy (which we do not), that's the standard we use here as well.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 21:41, December 12, 2017 (EST)
      • That's... not confirmation. That's correction of information. Lynnabel is not a former intern, she's a current intern. But she specifically wants to keep her wiki account anonymous. And that page also says "Usually others will not edit your user page itself, other than to address significant concerns (rarely) or to do routine housekeeping, such as handling project-related tags, disambiguating links to pages that have been moved, removing the page from categories meant for articles, or removing obvious vandalism and/or BLP violations." I see nothing in this list that suggests adding any categories, especially against the user's own wishes (unless you care to add "outing SSG staff against their wishes" as an official project). And rather than having a bureaucratic editing war over a user's namespace, I suggest you leave it as the user requests until and unless another bureaucrat weighs in on the subject. As for the claim that she requested the namechange... she not only denies it but has requested that it be changed back to Rien. And the only reason I posted here when she requested it of me, as a bureaucrat, is that I apparently don't possess that power. LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 21:52, December 12, 2017 (EST)
        • Took a lot of unnecessary work, but I believe it is now resolved.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 21:54, December 12, 2017 (EST)
          • I'm not sure why you said she lost her editing history, it's all right here where it should be. That new account doesn't have a history yet. However, I'll graciously leave the permission flag because she doesn't need to go through the CAP.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 22:16, December 12, 2017 (EST)

Renaming[edit]

As far as your claim you don't have the power to rename, DDO:Bureaucrats says you should and Special:ListGroupRights confirms that you do. Can you show me what you get when you try to do a rename that makes you think you can't? Feel free to test on Special:RenameUser/Example  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 21:57, December 12, 2017 (EST)

  • I get the options to Delete, Protect, or Refresh. No "Move". For that matter, I don't even get "Move" on my own namespace. I do get it on other pages I checked at random. LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 21:59, December 12, 2017 (EST)
    • "move" is not "rename" -- the link to rename a user should be in the "Page Toolbox" in the sidebar as well as at the top of the contributions page for the user.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 22:11, December 12, 2017 (EST)

AoV enhancement icons[edit]

Note that non-login user is me. I put the icons on AoV because texts are not quit visible which spells I can acquire when I just read them, even if the icon is different from actual enhancement icon we both know. that's why I put new icons near the existed icons. For example, Seeing the icon Icon Enhancement Ascendancy Healing Word.png makes me think of Sovereign Host Symbol or Unyielding Sovereignty, not Cure Light Wounds. other people may think same. other icons are same all, thinking different.

by the way, just revising was ok if you think that's better, but protecting the page when you revised 2 times made me quit unpleasurable with my thought that you think all of non-login users are potentially bad for contributing page as if doing Vandalism. of course we had lack of talk and that's my fault, but protecting the page was seen as if you deny my intention to make the page better, not acceptable. again, revising was ok though you might be bothered to do 2 times, but protecting was quit unpleasurable.

thanks. -- Targal (ContribsMessage) 00:23, January 19, 2018 (EST)

My two cents, having the spell icons is unnecessary. The spells are clearly listed in the description. LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 00:56, January 19, 2018 (EST)
  • I've reformatted the table on the Angel of Vengence page in what I hope is a clearer way. I agree that the linked spell names in the description should be enough. The other issue is that "Sun Bolt" doesn't give you "Lightning Bolt", it gives you a "Sun Bolt" SLA etc. We can reformat it a little more, but that section of the page is already way too long IMHO. I guess we could put in collapsed sections for each different option since the only one that really matters is the one that you can get based on your religion, although I'm hesitant to collapse actual content in that way (it's generally not desirable). Feel free to pop on to our Discord chat server and we can have a discussion about it with some other editors and see if we can't figure out the best way to make it work for everyone (maybe we can work on it during DDOwiki Talk this week even to get more community feedback on it).  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 11:10, January 19, 2018 (EST)

Death House[edit]

Please undo your changes related to Death House quest.

  • "In the Shadow of the Castle" is the name of the first story arc in Ravenloft.
  • "In the Shadow of the Castle: Death House" is the name of the journal entry bestowed by chain giver to contact the quest giver. This journal entry does not have any monsters or named loot or anything.
  • The actual quest is called "Death House". Thanks. -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 01:25, March 14, 2018 (EDT)
  • I have only been out there once so far, and it looked like that was the name of the actual quest. Either way, it's certainly not "Dead House" like it was before I started making changes. I'll look into it more and make sure we get it right today. Thanks for letting me know. Smile  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 08:20, March 14, 2018 (EDT)

Everywhere I have seen the quest referenced, it was called Death House. Changing the name broke some links. The first one I noticed is that the quest loot is no longer being displayed on the Death House quest page. GregJ (ContribsMessage) 12:07, March 14, 2018 (EDT)

Legendary Tempest's Spine and Hound of Xoriat shared loot[edit]

The # of runes given out on these two quests is 64 on Normal/84 on Hard/125 on Elite and ALWAYS have been. The amounts have NEVER been variable despite the original Dev post regarding the rune system introduced in these two quests.

The same goes for the Baba and Strahd quests - 64/84/125...EVERY time.

Where do I add items to quest item lists?[edit]

I updated the Legendary Giant's Platter and when I went to the quest page where the platter is found (The Madness of Crowds) I could not figure where to add the platter or a link to the platter. I looked through the FAQ and did not find this information, please help :D

(oh, and btw the reCaptcha is broken. I dont know who needs to know this but im sure that you know who to tell)

  • Those tables take care of themselves in less than 24 hours usually. Looks like it caught up.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 19:17, April 14, 2018 (EDT)

Unlinked bestower[edit]

You've made some edits with the description: "unlink bestower because the template autolinks it". The edits would be fine if the template indeed autolinked it, which it most certainly does not. See {{Quest}} and the talk section where I discussed the exact same issue... Template talk:Quest#Bestower Faltout (ContribsMessage) 12:51, May 12, 2018 (EDT)

  • You should have talked to me before reverting all my edits... and waited for a response... It was a WIP... See Free to Play quests which was brought to my attention because of its talk page... You will see that your reversion of my edits have broken all the bestower links because they were indeed already autolinked there.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 12:54, May 12, 2018 (EDT)
    • You should have said something in the appropriate talk page (linked above) before removing the links from a small portion of the quests. It's not unheard of to take on a project and leave it midway. Also, the last time you commented on this topic (links for the bestower), you said that bestower in the template should be left unlinked because of edge cases where the bestower is not an NPC. Since then, a couple of quests have had their bestower updated and not necessarily an NPC. So now that you changed your mind and you want bestower linked, you just broke a bunch of quest pages.
      Bottomline: Please correct all the pages that use |bestower= or revert the change to {{MissionInfoBox}} and give the free quests the bestower link back. (Example of broken page: The Cloven-jaw Scourge: The Caverns of Shaagh) Either way, stop leaving the wiki in a broken state. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 16:50, May 12, 2018 (EDT)
      • I've reverted the autolinking in the missionbox info template. Bottom line is this: next time, talk to a person on their talk page before rolling back a few dozen pages and breaking things. Thanks.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 18:09, May 12, 2018 (EDT)

Special:Contributions/101.98.119.214[edit]

Hi, this is regarding the blocked IP editor. His/Her contribution on the talk page of Elyd Edge and Brine Shaman Staff are 100% valid and correct. Those weapons don't use charisma to damage (only to hit). The comment under relic map does sound rude though. Still I don't feel the actions were truly intimidating or harassing. Not sure if there were any additional edits by this editor, the contributions page does not show much. Or maybe the edit summaries were offensive? -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 00:42, May 17, 2018 (EDT)

  • They could have found a more constructive way to relate information. Being an IP editor just whining about things being broken or not the way they like them, especially telling an administrator who retired years ago to stop uploading maps was extremely offensive. I unchecked the boxes, so they can create an account and discuss it on their talk page - if they choose, but a short block was warranted.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 01:04, May 17, 2018 (EDT)

Spell usefulness[edit]

You are ruining the page. It is organized in spell levels per class (the numbered comments) and now it's just an incoherent list of spells, which is not useful to anyone. Change it back to the correct format please. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 16:15, July 10, 2018 (EDT)

  • Bring back spell levels pls. -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 07:33, July 11, 2018 (EDT)
  • I saw nothing indicating they were spell levels. I'll work on adding defined spell levels today, but there's still no reason to have empty rows and numbered comments that don't offer any information.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 08:14, July 11, 2018 (EDT)
    • Out of the dozens of contributors of that page, you were the only one to not understand that. Perhaps next time ask before changing stuff twice? In any case, the empty rows signify that there aren't any important spells at the indicated levels. If you don't like the numbered list format, perhaps change it to headers or bold or tables, but the empty spell levels should be kept empty to make it faster to understand and avoid confusion about whether someone forgot to add the missing levels. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 09:13, July 11, 2018 (EDT)
  • Updated to include levels. There should be no empty levels, the page is long enough as it is. Perhaps it needs to be deleted and just let each section be on the appropriate class page instead? DDOstream (ContribsMessage) 10:15, July 11, 2018 (EDT)

Category:Wisdom_items[edit]

This new thing, it is bad. Please let's keep the old short overview as the default view - maybe move the new overwhelming DPL to a separate article. -- Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 07:33, July 11, 2018 (EDT)

  • All NCL is being converted to DPL because NCL isn't compatible with the next version of MW that we want to upgrade to. We can make a shorter DPL display, but it'll need to be DPL.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 08:16, July 11, 2018 (EDT)