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Talk:Arabic vs. Roman numerals
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Forums: Index > Village pump > Arabic vs. Roman numerals
Spell penetration VIII, spell focus mastery +3, why are we using two different sets of numeral systems? Since SSG doesn't use a single set, and doesn't use it consistently over time, no matter which one we select to use it'll always be right on some items and wrong on others. So why don't we standardize on Arabic numerals, since that is the most intuitive numeral system to use for those of us who were not born in the Roman era, and make editing just a little bit easier? That's a bit facetious as I am fairly conversant with the Roman numeral system, I'm mainly just arguing for consistency so I and others don't have to remember which affects use Arabic numerals and which use Roman numerals.
See Nightmother's Sceptre for an example where SSG used Arabic numerals for the spell pen values, but I had to use Roman numerals or I got an error message instead of an item affect.
⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 03:00, May 14, 2018 (EDT)
- ✔ Fixed The item should match what is seen in the description image. Whether it be an old style Roman numeral or a new style integer or whatever. I have updated
{{Spellpen}}to accept integers and I have updated your example of Nightmother's Sceptre to display it. 👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 09:51, May 14, 2018 (EDT)- Not completely fixed. The item is now under Category:Spell Penetration 8 items and Category:Insightful Spell Penetration 4 items. Those categories should be Category:Spell Penetration VIII items and Category:Insightful Spell Penetration IV items ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:15, May 14, 2018 (EDT)
- That's currently WAI except it should be Spell Penetration +8 items and Insightful Spell Penetration +4 items - but that's a different issue from the one originally reported, which is fixed. 👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 10:21, May 14, 2018 (EDT)
- Not completely fixed. The item is now under Category:Spell Penetration 8 items and Category:Insightful Spell Penetration 4 items. Those categories should be Category:Spell Penetration VIII items and Category:Insightful Spell Penetration IV items ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:15, May 14, 2018 (EDT)
- Progress, I guess, but what I had asked for was the standard to be a single numeral system, with Arabic being my preference, and not two different numeral systems. Thanks for fixing it up to that level at least.
On the subject of standards, take a look at:
* {{Spell Focus|Mastery|+4|Insightful}}
- -and-
* {{Spellpen|4|Insight|prefix=Insightful}}
- One requires the 'prefix=', the other does not. One has you place the numeric modifier right after the name of the thing, the other does not. --⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:48, May 15, 2018 (EDT)
- Different templates have different parameters. Why is that a problem? Spell Focus requires a spell school specified. There's just no way around it. (Well there is, we could create ~10 separate templates for each spell school / deific focus / rune arm focus / mastery). --⇒ Cru121 (Contribs • Message • Email) 06:19, May 15, 2018 (EDT)
- Different templates have different parameters, sure. But the goal should be to standardize as much as is possible, with the goal of making it as easy for editors to edit. Or at least I'd hope that this would be the goal. I cannot count the times I've had to refer to some other page in the middle of an edit in order to be able to make that edit valid. Requiring in one place that you preface 'Insightful' with 'prefix=' while in other places this is not required has nothing to do with different parameters, because we're just talking about Shaft, er, Insightful. Shut yo mouth! --⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:11, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- Progress, I guess, but what I had asked for was the standard to be a single numeral system, with Arabic being my preference, and not two different numeral systems. Thanks for fixing it up to that level at least.
- The goal of this wiki is to document what exists in the game Dungeons & Dragons Online. Roman numerals are an aspect of the game, and should be documented as they are. If you want to change the content of the game, you'll have to put in a ticket in SSG's ticketing system. 👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 09:49, May 15, 2018 (EDT)
- This is the typical jackass cop-out from you that makes up the majority of our conflicts. I cannot believe you would seriously point me to the SSG ticket system in order to correct a wiki issue with using Arabic and Roman numerals that SSG has absolutely zero control over. Well actually, I can believe it. This is you in a nut-shell. Congratulations? I've already pointed out that SSG uses the systems interchangeably, and irregularly. I only suggested that the wiki use a single system in order to make edits more easy for all. So if you had anything of value to to add to the conversation, I missed it.--⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:11, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- The wiki doesn't make the items, it only documents them. If the item says, "Spell Penetration III" then the wiki says "Spell Penetration III" -- if the developers want to change the items to say "Spell Penetration +3", then the wiki will change to represent what is in game. So, you're asking for a retroactive change to spell pen items to eliminate roman numerals in game. That's totally a SSG thing and not a wiki thing. Sorry. 👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 02:59, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- There you go again, either being deliberately obtuse or just plain stupid. Where did I ever mention any changes to the game? That's a rhetorical question, I didn't. I mentioned changes to the wiki to make things more easy for contributors. If you'd like to simply admit that you're not interested in making things easier for contributors, that's fine. But don't try to shift the blame for that decision onto the game. It's all you. --⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 21:11, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. We mirror the game, that's all there is too it. If Arcane Gloves says Spell Penetration I
Spell Penetration I: Passive: +1 Equipment bonus to Spell Penetration checks. then the wiki says Spell Penetration I Spell Penetration I: Passive: +1 Equipment bonus to Spell Penetration checks.. If the item in game says Spell Penetration +1 Spell Penetration +1: Passive: +1 Equipment bonus to Spell Penetration checks., then the item page on wiki will say Spell Penetration +1 Spell Penetration +1: Passive: +1 Equipment bonus to Spell Penetration checks.. I don't understand why it's so hard for you to understand, but let's take a look at that item:
- You obviously don't understand what I'm saying. We mirror the game, that's all there is too it. If Arcane Gloves says Spell Penetration I
- There you go again, either being deliberately obtuse or just plain stupid. Where did I ever mention any changes to the game? That's a rhetorical question, I didn't. I mentioned changes to the wiki to make things more easy for contributors. If you'd like to simply admit that you're not interested in making things easier for contributors, that's fine. But don't try to shift the blame for that decision onto the game. It's all you. --⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 21:11, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- The wiki doesn't make the items, it only documents them. If the item says, "Spell Penetration III" then the wiki says "Spell Penetration III" -- if the developers want to change the items to say "Spell Penetration +3", then the wiki will change to represent what is in game. So, you're asking for a retroactive change to spell pen items to eliminate roman numerals in game. That's totally a SSG thing and not a wiki thing. Sorry. 👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 02:59, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- This is the typical jackass cop-out from you that makes up the majority of our conflicts. I cannot believe you would seriously point me to the SSG ticket system in order to correct a wiki issue with using Arabic and Roman numerals that SSG has absolutely zero control over. Well actually, I can believe it. This is you in a nut-shell. Congratulations? I've already pointed out that SSG uses the systems interchangeably, and irregularly. I only suggested that the wiki use a single system in order to make edits more easy for all. So if you had anything of value to to add to the conversation, I missed it.--⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:11, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- Hmm... Looks like Spell Penetration I Spell Penetration I: Passive: +1 Equipment bonus to Spell Penetration checks., so that's what the wiki will say. It makes it less confusing to most viewers and a lot easier for editors to type in what they see on the item. It doesn't make it any harder to find Spell pen +1 items, they're all in the same Spell Penetration +1 items category regardless of if the item says Spell Penetration I Spell Penetration I: Passive: +1 Equipment bonus to Spell Penetration checks. or Spell Penetration I Spell Penetration I: Passive: +1 Equipment bonus to Spell Penetration checks. and if you decide to look up Spell Penetration I items , it'll still work as you'll find a nice soft-redirect back to Spell Penetration +1 items . There's nothing to change. 👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 22:16, May 16, 2018 (EDT)
- Hmm... Looks like Spell Penetration I
- Please don't point your finger at me and say that I don't understand what you're saying, after you apparently ignored the entire opening text of my 'village pump' post and after you misconstrued, twice, that I was seeking some kind of a change to the live game. If you'd stop trying to talk past me and just applied a little reading comprehension we might get along a lot better. You can't claim "We mirror the game" when if you mirrored the game I'd have never made my opening post in the first place. Capisce? --⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 01:48, May 19, 2018 (EDT)
- Regarding the prefix thing, I don't like it, so I worked around it when building T:Spell Focus, adding logic so that Ins/Insight/Insightful all worked correctly. T:Spellpen is an older template, support for bonus types was hacked in somehow. Having the prefix parameter is kinda more universal. When they introduce Strangest Spell Penetration +11 which grants Retarded bonus, T:Spellpen will be able to handle it. --⇒ Cru121 (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:51, May 15, 2018 (EDT)
- I'm not sure I'm understanding you completely, but if you're saying, as I think you are, that you've made the template more generic and more able to incorporate future changes, then I'm all for it. If anyone cares to look at my past wiki gripes, they have all been centered around silly, short-minded implementations. As with the templates which only allowed "current at the time" in-game numbers of A,B,D,R, but future updates added C,E-Q, etc. Those kinds of templates are broken upon implementation, and need to be corrected.--⇒ Niminae (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:11, May 16, 2018 (EDT)