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User talk:KakarisMaelstrom
Welcome![edit]
May I extend my warmest welcomes and offer you any help you may need? Thanks for your contributions, mate!
If you need help with something...
- ...I'm always available! You can drop a message on my user talk page (which I watch like a hawk) or grab my other contact info on my user page.
- ...There's a wealth of wiki documentation on the meta wiki, perhaps some of it may be of use to you.
- ...There's a really good Introduction over on meta also, it should help you figure out what's going on if your new to wikis in general.
Again, welcome to the wiki - and I can't thank you enough on behalf of the community for your help in making us the best DDO site around (-;
- From Elliott Cable ✆ ✍ on 06:47, April 17, 2006 (EDT)
Modifier to AC when moving[edit]
You added in the Players manual that swinging when moving caused a -4 AC penalty. Where is the source for that information? (I had never heard about that). Since my guess is it's a mistake, I'll remove it while waiting for your answer (otherwise I may forgot to...) By the way, thanks for all your contributions! Tihocan 15:20, April 26, 2006 (EDT)
- That is an error. You get a -4 AC not for SWINGING but for MOVING. It doesn't matter if you're swinging or not. That -4 AC penalty is incurred if you choose to move normally instead of tumble. That means if you are surrounded by enemies, moving is going to make you more likely to be injured than just standing there. KakarisMaelstrom 15:49, April 26, 2006 (EDT)
- You are talking about an AC penalty though in the Players manual only the attack penalty is mentioned. I can confirm the attack penalty when moving, but so far I never read anything about an additional AC penalty while moving. Where is the source for that information? Another question: The attack penalty can be negated with the Spring Attack feat. Is the AC penalty (if it exists) also negated with that feat?--Ziu 04:07, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- I'm trying to find a reliable source of the negative AC on movement other than just community knowledge. The problem is that it is not actually removed from your AC but rather it is added to your opponent's to-hit. I'm coming up short to find an answer other than constant discussion in the DDO forums. Though, that said, there are also a slew of people talking about whether the tumble bonus is 1 AC per 4 or 5 tumble. Which, simply isn't true. That is a bonus to AC and you can substantiate the lack of bonus by tumbling and hitting "C" at the time of the tumble. If you have Mobility you'll see a +4 improvment. If you do not, you will so no improvement. Clearly, it does not add a bonus to AC. Does it reduces someone's ability to hit you or not? I don't think so. I believe people are translating it incorrectly. When you move without tumble, you open yourself up to attack (giving a +4 to-hit to your opponents). When you move by tumbling, the to-hit bonus does not apply. So people think they are getting an AC bonus because they are not being hit as often as "just running" but it is elimination of a penalty, not a bonus. They would be better off turtling behind a shield. HOWEVER, all of this is clearly based on facts that I can't substantiate because the bonus is given to enemy to-hit, not personal AC. But, likewise, ranged weapons do not give an AC penalty during use but give the enemy a +4 to hit you. It is easier to test, however, because it does not requirement movement during, and you will never tumble outside the range their weapon can swing to. If you've got an idea how to test effectively, I'd happily run the numbers to prove the -4 AC while moving thing.
- I think the best thing you can do is start a forum topic directly about it, get some good discussion, and then judge the situation as it is. If there is a lot of consensus that that is correct, go ahead and mark it s verified, else; don't. Also, make sure to sign your posts with tildes (~~~~) so we know who you are! Elliott Cable - ?+¿ - ‹·› 12:15, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- http://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php?p=313331#post313331 --KakarisMaelstrom 12:59, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- I think the best thing you can do is start a forum topic directly about it, get some good discussion, and then judge the situation as it is. If there is a lot of consensus that that is correct, go ahead and mark it s verified, else; don't. Also, make sure to sign your posts with tildes (~~~~) so we know who you are! Elliott Cable - ?+¿ - ‹·› 12:15, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- I'm trying to find a reliable source of the negative AC on movement other than just community knowledge. The problem is that it is not actually removed from your AC but rather it is added to your opponent's to-hit. I'm coming up short to find an answer other than constant discussion in the DDO forums. Though, that said, there are also a slew of people talking about whether the tumble bonus is 1 AC per 4 or 5 tumble. Which, simply isn't true. That is a bonus to AC and you can substantiate the lack of bonus by tumbling and hitting "C" at the time of the tumble. If you have Mobility you'll see a +4 improvment. If you do not, you will so no improvement. Clearly, it does not add a bonus to AC. Does it reduces someone's ability to hit you or not? I don't think so. I believe people are translating it incorrectly. When you move without tumble, you open yourself up to attack (giving a +4 to-hit to your opponents). When you move by tumbling, the to-hit bonus does not apply. So people think they are getting an AC bonus because they are not being hit as often as "just running" but it is elimination of a penalty, not a bonus. They would be better off turtling behind a shield. HOWEVER, all of this is clearly based on facts that I can't substantiate because the bonus is given to enemy to-hit, not personal AC. But, likewise, ranged weapons do not give an AC penalty during use but give the enemy a +4 to hit you. It is easier to test, however, because it does not requirement movement during, and you will never tumble outside the range their weapon can swing to. If you've got an idea how to test effectively, I'd happily run the numbers to prove the -4 AC while moving thing.
- You are talking about an AC penalty though in the Players manual only the attack penalty is mentioned. I can confirm the attack penalty when moving, but so far I never read anything about an additional AC penalty while moving. Where is the source for that information? Another question: The attack penalty can be negated with the Spring Attack feat. Is the AC penalty (if it exists) also negated with that feat?--Ziu 04:07, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- I will test it myself. What I will do is I'll go into Sewer rescue with an AC around 25. I'll get to a kobold rogue and let it hit me until the combat log is full (about 120-130 hits). I'll do this without moving, then while moving constantly by strafing in front of it, and see what happens. Note that 120-130 hits may not be enough, I'll run a few simultion tests first to see what's the margin of error with this sample size. Tihocan 13:48, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- Make sure to start an information project for this so others can see your results and help out! Elliott Cable - ?+¿ - ‹·› 14:16, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- Somehow, there is one already: DDO information project/Monsters. Tihocan 16:57, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- The Monsters page has been updated with 3 200 instances tests on kobolds. My math isn't good tonight, but I tried to duplicate the BAB calculation you used Tihocan. If it isn't right, correct, but there is a strong indication that being attacked from rear has an effect. See results on that post. KakarisMaelstrom 21:44, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- Cool, I'll check it out later today :) My own tests had shown there was no effect, but I wanted to try again because I was not really confident in these results. Tihocan 11:37, April 28, 2006 (EDT)
- There's most definitely an effect from being attack from the rear. It's the same +2 to-hit flanking bonus that PCs get. Improved Uncanny Dodge's passive effect negates this +2 bonus. Sonil 23:39, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
- Well I have to contend that point. DDO Forums frequently say that there is not a flanking bonus in DDO, only a rear attack bonus. Flanking is only important to a rogue for sneak attack. True or not? Don't know. Easy enough to test though. KakarisMaelstrom 08:37, April 28, 2006 (EDT)
- Sorry, I was unclear. "Flanking" in DDO is attacking from the rear, which gives a +2 to-hit bonus (to mobs and PCs). Flanking as in PnP doesn't exist. Rogues get a Sneak Attack if their target is targetting someone else (or has been bluffed, or is helpless) Sonil 11:01, April 28, 2006 (EDT)
- That's indeed what seems to be the truth. Tihocan 11:37, April 28, 2006 (EDT)
- Further tests show no penalty for running in combat. DDO information project/Monsters KakarisMaelstrom 08:39, April 30, 2006 (EDT)
- That's indeed what seems to be the truth. Tihocan 11:37, April 28, 2006 (EDT)
- Sorry, I was unclear. "Flanking" in DDO is attacking from the rear, which gives a +2 to-hit bonus (to mobs and PCs). Flanking as in PnP doesn't exist. Rogues get a Sneak Attack if their target is targetting someone else (or has been bluffed, or is helpless) Sonil 11:01, April 28, 2006 (EDT)
- Well I have to contend that point. DDO Forums frequently say that there is not a flanking bonus in DDO, only a rear attack bonus. Flanking is only important to a rogue for sneak attack. True or not? Don't know. Easy enough to test though. KakarisMaelstrom 08:37, April 28, 2006 (EDT)
- The Monsters page has been updated with 3 200 instances tests on kobolds. My math isn't good tonight, but I tried to duplicate the BAB calculation you used Tihocan. If it isn't right, correct, but there is a strong indication that being attacked from rear has an effect. See results on that post. KakarisMaelstrom 21:44, April 27, 2006 (EDT)
Oh, and another similar question, but about which I have no real opinion: have you been able to confirm that you get an AC penalty when wearing a thrown weapon? Tihocan 15:28, April 26, 2006 (EDT)
- Tests show -3 AC on Ranged, -4 AC on Thrown. Imagine the 3 is a sampling issue. DDO information project/Monsters KakarisMaelstrom 08:39, April 30, 2006 (EDT)