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Talk:Monster Manual

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Sortable?[edit]

Can we make this table sortable and possibly include columns for highest hunter and highest exterminator deed or something to that effect?


I don't know who you are because you didn't sign your post, but the table is sortable if you click on the heading by which you want the table sorted.
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 17:31, August 22, 2012 (EDT)

A List For Each Monster In The Manual With The Exact Name And Where To Find It[edit]

Hi! I would like to ask, what You think of the idea to have a list for each monster in the manual with the exact name and where to find it. This would help to complete the Hunter deeds. We could have a page per monster or one page per Type. → Lars73 (ContributionsMessage) 07:42, August 26, 2012 (EDT)

Actually the list is already there, just not on the wiki. It can be found on the external link on the bottom. I don't know if it's worth having a list on the wiki too.

Arthnoxx (ContributionsMessage) 07:57, August 26, 2012 (EDT)

The monster manual project is going to be another super large project... I have a few other super large projects already going on... What I had in mind for it is... Since we already have pages for most if not all of the named monsters and their generic monster types on the wiki, the easiest way is to go through and set up a category structure... Since most of the generic monster types use Template:Infobox-monster, I will add some auto-categorization to that template which will filter through the wiki... I can also add a more precise set of instructions so that people can more easily fill out the habitat section (which quests you can find them in and about how many are there). Let me make the modifications to the template now, I don't have time to go through and set up the whole category tree for it, but I could probably get it started to give an example of how to properly populate it if someone wanted to go through and finish it. Big Grin
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 09:41, August 26, 2012 (EDT)
Ok, so I went to Template:Infobox-monster, and it seems that most of that categorization was already done... Monsters by type, Monsters by race, and Named Monsters already exist as-well-as we already have a Bestiary. However, by checking these lists, I noticed that it seems just the main raid bosses aren't using the template (Please, let me fix that. There was some controversy about it before, and I would rather take any heat than you.). I also noticed that if you go through each monster type, some of them are missing a lot of information and some have wrong information... What I would like you to do, if you are so inclined to work on this project and help progress the wiki, is to go through and update each monster type/race as much as you can with factual information from the game. Doing this will make the auto-categorization work better and when a good number of these pages are updated and correct, then we'll have a data base to build a page on the category page that reflects the information you are looking for. Maybe we can even rebuild Monsters by type and race to be more monster manual like...
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 10:11, August 26, 2012 (EDT)
I'm the author of the monster manual site, and can probably do some work putting together a tool to scrape the data into wiki format if you'd like.

It may take me a little while to put together though, as I'm fairly new to wiki markup. → Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 12:34, August 27, 2012 (EDT)

I have no issues helping you build such a bot... Let me know what you need from me.
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 13:16, August 27, 2012 (EDT)
Ideally I'd like the markup for sortable tables (table headers(sortable), row dividers for sections etc)

Since its currently still being updated fairly regularly by the community (and myself), a live import would be ideal, but i'm not sure if that's possible. (ideally AJAX the content) Once I have the markup, I'll rough out a wiki export of the contents. It will be a page on my site which has the current database of entries, in (this) wiki format, which can be copy/pasted when you this site needs updating, if AJAXing the data isnt possible. → Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 22:57, August 27, 2012 (EDT)

Spirit (Contribs • Message), you're the author of http://ddo.deathwishgame.co.uk/monman/ ??? If so, I noticed some typos there that should be fixed... Kobolds is my current project, and there is a Chief that should have been Chef listed... I have added the correct chef, but see no way to remove the incorrect Chief. Do you have an administrator type sign-in to fix those things that I could get on, or could you at least post a link someplace on the page where people can PM you on your talk page here, on the forums, or contact you some other way to report errors on the list? Also, I was thinking it might be more efficient to use a drop-down list for where people put in type: race. I didn't realize that each individual "type" had it's own + button specifically for that section and they aren't any + button will do and added a kobold to animal creatures, I then realized the error and re-adding it to humanoid fixed this incorrect one, but... if it was just a universal drop-down, it wouldn't be an issue. Just some ideas... Big Grin
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 04:29, August 28, 2012 (EDT)
I am indeed, thanks for the pointers. I was planning on adding a ! button at the end of entries for "report a mistake", or possibly even add in a custom rightclick menu. If you click to report an error, i'll have an input after they click it to say what is wrong.

I'll get on fixing the broken entries you've mentioned, right now → Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 08:50, August 28, 2012 (EDT)

Good start... Is there anyway you can set it up so it doesn't refresh the page every time I enter a new one, or at least have it remember which sections are collapsed? It's annoying to have to scroll to the top after every entry to recollapse everything when I am adding 2+ named mobs I found back to back. Also, is there anyway you can set it up so that the list tells you how many "types" of each it has for each race? For example, the monster manual says there are at least 80 "types" of kobolds (for max "hunter" account tier), there are currently 77 listed... Perhaps it could say (77/80) Kobolds for the section header. Lastly, would be even greater if each "type" linked back to its respective DDOwiki page, is there any way we can do that? I noticed a couple more of the kobolds don't match what is on Kobold_race_monsters if you want to go through and clean those few up. Big Grin
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 10:00, August 28, 2012 (EDT)
Cleaned up the erroneous entries, added a count for current number of entries

Matching them up... might take me longer. → Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 11:20, August 28, 2012 (EDT)

Added funtionality so that it remembers shown/hidden volumes, and collapsed/uncollapsed entries!

Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 13:00, August 28, 2012 (EDT)

MM Table[edit]

I've made a draft for a table containing the 77 kobs known so far, see if that helps or gives you any ideas. Link: MM. Building such a table is very dull though so I doubt I'll make more for other monster categories. → by Mjoll (ContributionsMessage) 04:53, August 29, 2012 (EDT)

I like that idea, and ideally we could put each table on its respective Category page.. Such as MM could be copy and pasted into Kobold race monsters. Then each of the "race monsters" categories could be transcluded into the respective "type" page, in this case it would be Reptilian monsters. How far and how much we want to transclude should be discussed because I am afraid that if we go so far as to transclude everything to Monsters (even Monsters by type) we will end up with a huge page that some (if not most) people won't be able (or will at least take a considerable amount of time) to load. Also, the category structure needs to be reworked a little to more closely resemble the MM, such as reptilian monsters are grouped under "humanoid" in the MM... I'll work on that some more myself later... I've been thinking about it while I have been working on populating kobold race monsters... Wilting
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 08:39, August 29, 2012 (EDT)
How does the catagory page keep itself up to date, does it populate off templates?

Is there any way to mass add contents, as in, a single edit with many entries, or does each page have to be added individually? → Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 09:00, August 30, 2012 (EDT)

We have a slight conflict of interests here. The ingame Monster Manual does not always track the entries properly. For example the heyton zombies/skeletons, and the Sahuagin Necromancers in Heyton's Rest do not show up in the Monster Manual, but they are valid monsters. This site should probably show all monsters properly, but maybe have a flag to say whether they appear in the Monster Manual?

Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 09:30, August 30, 2012 (EDT)

The wiki should be accurate, but include notes on what the game has it as if it is incorrect... As far as categories go, they auto-populate themselves through template usage and the way the wiki software itself works... that being said, category pages also have a regular page component up top that we can edit and add notes to..
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 10:02, August 30, 2012 (EDT)
So, in essence, there is no way to add multiple entries to the catagory page, without adding each page individually. Troublesome, but not alltogether impossible to work around. I should have a wiki page export for the whole of my site done by this evening, using the monster template format. It won't have any of the entries like attack type, just the basics that I can export. But its a start, no? Would it be possible to add a line in the monster template for if it is in the Monster Manual (to let people know which monsters DO NOT properly update in the ingame MonMan)?

Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 15:07, August 30, 2012 (EDT)

It is possible to do just about anything in the template... I'm not sure what you mean by, "there is no way to add multiple entries to the catagory page, without adding each page individually", All of the pages should already be in all the appropriate categories, which is why I am confused... Could you work up some kind of mock-up in your user space as to what you will be exporting/importing to the wiki? Thanx.. Big Grin As far as doing stuff with the templates, just about anything is possible, just give me a mock up of what you mean and I can create it.
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 15:54, August 30, 2012 (EDT)
All done, can be found here http://ddo.deathwishgame.co.uk/monman/wiki.php is there anything else you want added?

Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 15:49, August 30, 2012 (EDT)

Okay, I see what you are doing... Trying to make one big master list is probably not a good idea. Also, Template:Infobox-monster is probably not going to be the correct template for that... We should build a specialized template for your purpose... Perhaps one that accepts all of the information for each "type" on one line and outputs the correct code to create a row of a table... Maybe we could name it something like Template:MonManTableRow or maybe even Template:MMTR for short... The information could be input like {{MMTR|name=|type= <or> race=|habitat=|mm=}} of-which most of those arguments are pretty self-explanatory and |mm= would be a true/false type switch to flag it as correctly recorded in the monster manual in-game or not. |type= would be used on cat pages where it is monster by race and |race= could be used on monster by type pages.
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 16:51, August 30, 2012 (EDT)
Sounds spiffing. I have no idea how to set it up, unfortunately

Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 04:46, August 31, 2012 (EDT)

I started a prototype Template:MMTR, feel free to take a look at it and tell me what you think... Big Grin
ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 19:01, August 31, 2012 (EDT)
All done and imported at mm_export for your viewing and suggestions. I'm thinking potentially putting each catagory as its own header, and subheaders for each subrace Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 22:05, September 1, 2012 (EDT)
Fixed sortablecatagorisation stuff and headers. Spirit (ContributionsMessage) 22:31, September 1, 2012 (EDT)

Hunter section columns... needs one more..[edit]

When Ii get some time this afternoon, I intend on having the table use a template and adding a note or column for each row telling how many the wiki knows about since we do not have them all yet... Any questions, comments, concerns, or objections?

ShoeMaker (Contributions  Message) 08:36, October 10, 2012 (EDT)

dpl experiment[edit]

I, uh... User:Aldyron/Sandbox/Monster Manual experiment#Monster Manual table (dpl-generated): current state

... and then anything else around that, if you can stomach it. :-)

I believe anyone who reads this talk page will have thoughts on the matter. I don't want to influence you right now, so I'll stop here for now.

I'll be at your disposal in a few hours.→ Aldyron (ContributionsMessage) 20:22, September 8, 2013 (EDT)

Turbine Points[edit]

The page states that MM1 and MM2 can award +15+35 TP (Turbine Points) How do you get this? (also, I noticed the linked discussion thread from before it was released states the TP award is per character)


Every character deed and every account deed gives some kind of reward. You can check each by hovering on the corresponding deed icon with your mouse pointer.

Take Scorpions, for example, in MM1.

The second account deed, Scorpion Exterminator II, gives you some scorpion art (that is, your monster manual will sport a nice color illustration of a scorpion on page I of the Scorpion section) *and* 15 TP.

By hovering on this deed's icon, you can also see you need to kill 1000 scorpions of any kind in order to get those rewards. This being an *account* deed, the counter is shared with all the characters belonging to your account. That is, you can kill 300 scorpions with a character, 500 with another character and 200 with yet another character (all belonging to the same account), for a total of 1000, and you will make it.

By comparison, take Ghouls, in MM2.

In order to get the 15 TP, you need to achieve the third account deed, Ghoul Exterminator II, which requires 500 ghoul kills (account-shared counter).

... and so on. Every time you achieve a deed, you get the corresponding reward, so you can get the TP prize several times.

Then, in order to get the 35 TP, you need to achieve account deed Scorpion Exterminator V (7500 scorpion kills), or account deed Ghoul Exterminator V (3500 ghoul kills), or some other deed.

To conclude, check every deed and go hunt what you need.

Happy hunting. :-)→ Aldyron (ContributionsMessage) 20:48, February 9, 2014 (EST)

Do kills earned before buying a manual count?[edit]

It's been fairly difficult to find information on this, and it would seem to me that unless the many kills someone is likely to get before noticing the monster manual at all carry over onto manuals purchased later on, then there would be far less incentive to actually buy the things. I mean, I wouldn't really want to have to go back and kill every ooze all over again just to pad the 'types' out. 24.203.12.141

It shouldn't be hard to test while the Lamannia test server is up: roll up a new account, go kill a few specific things and note what they are, get free DDO Store points from the Test Dojo then buy the Monster Manual that contains those monster types and see. And no real need to 'go back and kill things all over again' - just catch it on your next TR or new character. Backley (ContributionsMessage) 13:34, March 22, 2014 (EDT)
From my experiences when the MM first rolled out, kills prior to buying/acquiring MM volumes do not count. It could have changed since. Just do what Backley said. Ague (ContributionsMessage) 09:32, March 23, 2014 (EDT)
  • Last time I did any testing, it actually wasn't that simple. Things I had already killed when the manuals came out didn't initially show up, but as I remember it, when I killed the creature again (after a relog more specifically), I had two kills instead of one. In other words, you don't get credit for the kills you had until you kill it again, this doesn't help you for types, but it is a little helpful for slayer counts. ShoeMaker (Contributions Message) 11:59, March 24, 2014 (EDT)

SPAM?[edit]

In the external links listing, the one named YourDDO Monster Manual Reference links to an irrelevant site/page. It should be removed as it looks like SPAM...— previous unsignedPlease sign posts using ~~~~ comment by ‎173.206.79.107 ( c |d| r| b) at 06:47, December 4, 2014 (UTC)

  • It is not irrelevant, and it is not spam. The link has been updated to direct you to the relevant subpage of the site. — Zav(C·T·E) 06:18, December 4, 2014 (EST)
I'm a little late chiming in on this (I don't typically read page discussions), but, yeah, definately not a spam link. Thanks for fixing the link, Zav (Contribs • Message) -- Ague (Talk · Contribs · B · D · I · P · PM · PP · UM · UR) 04:32, March 22, 2016 (EDT)