User talk:Technical 13/2012/3

⇑   ⇑   Back to top   ⇑   ⇑

General

Journal

Sand Box

To Do List

Characters

Quest List

Crafting

Talk

2010

2011

2012

2013

2014

2015

2016

2017

2018

2019

2020

2021

2022

2023

2024

Jan - Mar

Apr - June

July - Sept

Oct - Dec

Unused files section

Would like to start deleting files in the Unused files section. Some are really old, most are unused or been replaced, while the newer files are getting lost in the mix. Any concerns or problems before or if Iam able to clean out that section??? Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 14:09, July 3, 2012 (EDT)

I think the more pressing issue is the slew of incoming new files that do not meet our naming policy standard... For now, until this new expansion stuff settles down, I would personally rather see you downloading the images, re-uploading to the proper filename, and deleting the replaced versions... but that might be just me... ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 22:58, July 3, 2012 (EDT)

Template:Stat

Template:Stat needs an update to include Insightful stats - I'd do it, but I'm afraid I'll break the heck out of it! → LrdSlvrhnd (Contributions • Message) 04:06, July 9, 2012 (EDT)

Now that weird stacking of exceptional bonuses is gone, this template could be streamlined to use unified descriptions

STAT / DEX / 3 / bonus type

With bonus type being Exc or Ins or nothing

• ((Bonus name)) ((Ability)) ((+x)) - This item makes you ((stronger/weaker)), granting a ((+/-X)) ((bonus type)) to ((ability))
• Ability +6 - This item makes you better, granting a +6 enhancement bonus to ability
• Insightful Ability +3 - This item makes you better, granting a +3 insight bonus to ability
• Exceptional Ability +1 - This item makes you better, granting a +1 competence bonus to ability

Optionally, if last parameter is specified but not Exc or Ins, still produce the proper result, e.g.

• STAT / STR/ 6 / Psionic
• Psionic Strength +6 - This item makes you better, granting a +6 Psionic bonus to ability

→ --Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 09:00, July 9, 2012 (EDT)

AFAIK there is no Psionic bonus that is always active, only short time bonus from clickies, enhancements and alike. PCrazee (Contributions • Message) 11:50, July 9, 2012 (EDT)

It shouldn't be hard to change. Change the description and pop-up for exceptional +2 into insightful +2 (this will take care of the old exceptional +2 items w/o the need to re-edit them all). And add new descriptions/pop-ups for insightful +2 and +3.
I don't have the rights to change it, so I'm just dumping my ideas here :) -- PCrazee (Contributions • Message) 11:59, July 9, 2012 (EDT)

Right, there is probably no full time psionic bonus to ability, I just thought this would make the template flexible to support future bonuses when they come without developer involvement. If this is not possible/too much effort, I guess at least alchemical bonus should be added. --Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 13:35, July 9, 2012 (EDT)

I completely agree the template should be forward compatible (for when they finally DO add this stuff)... It will actually be easier to code that way.. As far as exceptional +2 items go, I'll have Kobold_sneak (Contribs • Message • Email) go through and update all of those not done manually by someone else in a hurry... ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 14:17, July 9, 2012 (EDT)

Kobold Poop

Backley (Contributions • Message) 15:02, July 10, 2012 (EDT) FYI: Kobold left the unneeded Long Popup around Incite10 on this edit: https://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Update_12_named_items&diff=0&oldid=139274]

Also, left some weird expr:4+1 in https://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Epic_Swashbuckler_%28Tier_2%29&diff=0&oldid=134453 and https://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Epic_Swashbuckler_%28Tier_1%29&diff=0&oldid=109538]

I've fixed up those 3 oddities.

Thank you. I tried to clean up after him as much as I could... The long popup ones were very rare (thought the 3 got was all of them) and not worth trying to code the ReGex for... The expr:4+1 must have been on Parrying items where it was suppose to {{subst:#expr:{{{current}}}+1}} in order to progress the items currently using the template by one so that the 1-5 lesser (non-existant) to superior (level 5) was more consistant with other templates. -- ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 15:16, July 10, 2012 (EDT)

u14 spell power changes

My guildie (User:Durkun) and I came up with the following list. It's a 'translation' table for the specific spell power enhancements (eg Devotion, Glaciation; see below for some Potency values). Sadly, there is no straight formula to get to the new values. The possible formulae do not work for all items found. :( Some of the descriptions were taken from barter interfaces.

Lesser VI = 60

---

(Regular) VI (Gauntlets of Eternity) = 60

(Regular) IX (Regalia of the Phoenix) = 78

possible formula: 24 + n*6

---

Improved I (Devotion Handwraps) = 30

Improved II (Eternal Wand of Spark of Light, Vulkoorim Pendant) = 30

Improved III (Mask of Tragedy) = 42

Improved IV (Letter Opener) = 48

Improved VI (Crest of St. Marcus) = 66

Improved VIII (Lorrik/Glacier 2pc) = 72

Improved IX (Deaths Touch) = 84

possible formula: something odd below VI, and 30 + n*6 above that

---

Greater II (Frozen Tunic, Cloak of Flames, Ring of Master Artifice) = 36

Greater III (Lightning Rod, in contrast to the screen shot on the wiki) = 48

Greater IV (Frozen Tunic) = 54

Greater IV (Cloak of Flames, Ring of Master Artifice, Twisted Talisman) = 60

Greater V (Frozen Tunic) = 60

Greater VI (Frozen Tunic, Cloak of Flames, Ring of Master Artifice) = 66

Greater VII Combustion (Crystalline Scepter) = 78

Greater VIII (ToD ring): according to http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p=4557156&postcount=9 84, according to the altar of subjugation 78

Greater VIII (Sacred Helm set) = 90

possible formula: 30 + n*6 for n smaller than IV, and 36 + n*6 above that.

---

Superior II (Vulkoorim Pendant) = 42

Superior III (Robe of Fire) = 48

Superior V (Wichting Hour) = 66

Superior VI (upgraded Gauntlets of Eternity, Mad Lute, Staff of Fleshshaping, Luminous Truth) = 72

Superior VI (Frozen Tunic) = 66

Superior VII (Frozen Tunic) = 72

Superior VII (Cloak of Flames, Ring of Master Artifice, Epic Mask of Tragedy/Comedy) = 78

Superior VIII (Lorrik/Glacier 3pc)= 78

Superior VIII (Epic Twisted Talisman, Belashyrra's Scepter)= 84

Superior VIII (Frozen Tunic, Cloak of Flames, Ring of Master Artifice) = 90

Superior IX (Frozen Tunic, Cloak of Flames, Ring of Master Artifice) = 90

Superior IX = 90

possible formula: 36 + n*6

---

For Potency:

Potency VII (Madstone Boots) = 48

Greater Potency VII (Epic Mask of Tragedy/Comedy, Madstone Boots) = 52

--Krlkch (Contributions • Message) 20:17, July 10, 2012 (EDT)

Planar Focus of Prowess

New item appeared in end reward list for the chain Queen of the Demonweb.

I have uploaded the image from the item description. https://ddowiki.com/page/File:Planar_Focus_of_Prowess_Desc.jpg

Did a search and couldn't find any page(s) that relate to this

--Redcastle73

Eveningstar

I want to add in some end of chain rewards for the Kings Forest/Eveningstar chain of quests but I am having trouble finding a central location where all of the new chains are a) noted as a chain and b) given a name. For example when you finish The Lost Thread, The Unquiet Graves, Impossible Demands and The Battle for Eveningstar you get a chain reward from Adamor Thellik. I see a couple of them are mentioned as chest rewards on the Battle for Eveningstar page (Piwafwi and Goggles) but can't find anywhere for end of chain (I got those two and Grave Wrappings). I've also found that after you run the chain in order (1st three then Battle) the first time through after that the order does not matter as long as you do all 4 you'll get an end of chain reward again. I don't feel familiar enough with the world of wiki to do it all myself. → Thrakthor (Contributions • Message) 07:55, July 19, 2012 (EDT)

I'm not entirely sure I know what you are asking... The individual item pages should be putting those end reward items in "Category:<quest name> reward items" if the |location = and |end reward = sections are properly filled out.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 08:29, July 19, 2012 (EDT)

For example if I look at quests by Adventure Pack and click on Sentinels of Stormreach I see a list of the quests, favor and then Reward list. I'm not sure how to create a page like this for the different chains available in the new content. I like this format, it tells me what I have to do and what I can get and would like to create one for others to see and benefit from. Sorry I wasn't too clear.

→ Thrakthor (Contributions • Message) 09:13, July 19, 2012 (EDT)

So you are looking for the The King's Forest, Sschindylryn, The Underdark, and The Demonweb pages Which apparently need some formalized re-visitation by an administrator... Just add a {{Wikify}} to the top of them and when I find a minute between projects, I will clean them up. Thank you.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 09:55, July 19, 2012 (EDT)

You actually just beat me to an edit. I guess I could use Menace of the Underdark (story arc) page and add them in under those sections? That would still need some moving about to make it a bit more prominent and easy to find. I'll still do the wikify thing. This page seems to indicate the chain names too so that's good. Cheers for helping out a new arrival to wikis.

→ Thrakthor (Contributions • Message) 10:05, July 19, 2012 (EDT)

Multiple locations and bindings

The Item templates need some updating in having the ability to display multiple quest locations with/and the end rewards. Still trying to decipher Template:Bind to see if I can add "c" for Chest "e" for End Reward ex. Bound to Character on Equip, ExclusiveBound to Character on Equip: This item is Bound to Character on Equip would display as Bound to Character on Equip - Chest as the items templates look like they can handle multiple bindings if the 2nd binding is enter on the next line line. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 15:45, July 21, 2012 (EDT)

Adding multiple locations to the Named_... templates is already on the todo list... I'm confused what you are saying about bindings... Some items are bound differently based on where you get them, or they are bugged out like some always have been showing both bindings (ie showing both BtCoA & BtCoE on the item). If it is the second one, than those items should be treated like all the rest being classified by whatever the most severe is (CA - CE - AA - AE - unbound).

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 18:34, July 21, 2012 (EDT)

The items have one binding listed but the binding listed depends on where the item was obtain. Some are BoE when looted from a certain quest chest and/or end reward and BoA in another quest chest and/or end reward. Take the Pale Rod it is a found as end reward for The Unquiet Graves is BoE while the one obtain from The Battle for Eveningstar end reward is BOA. A number of items items listed on the wiki say BoA, but I find the same items in the AH with BoE. Hope that clears it up Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 19:01, July 21, 2012 (EDT)

Single toon TRing vs. alts

Thanks for leaving the message. I never really thought about it actually. I do look for good builds and try to read up on the wiki/forums, but I guess it is possible to screw up pretty bad. I will definitely drop a message if I need some help... for sure when I get to the caster and rogue lives... lets just say they are not my cup of tea ;).

Arthnoxx (Contributions • Message)

lol you did just fine. I'm always around, and often on the IRC to chat live. Only thing is, use ~~~~ to sign posts or the Post template.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 12:01, July 22, 2012 (EDT)

Images and Border Color

Should we update images due to the icon border icon? I been avoiding it myself, unless the pic is bad. I honestly see no point in it cause turbine can change the color at anytime. Already seen good images get replace low quality images with a icon border. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 13:17, July 28, 2012 (EDT)

On minor note the "Watch" links not functioning, for me anyway. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 13:49, July 28, 2012 (EDT)

I'm not sure what you mean. Please give me an example or two. I don't replace any images myself unless something alpha-numeric changes on the item or I have a cleaner clearer picture. ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 16:31, July 28, 2012 (EDT)

I got 4 new VoN items updated today with new images. On the summary I said "U14, red border", but yeah, they also were improvement over the old files (and/or name correction). Take a look: Ring of the Silver Concord, Epic Ring of the Silver Concord, Ruby Encrusted Gauntlets and Helm of the Mroranon. Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 18:53, July 28, 2012 (EDT)

OHHH!!!! Is that what you are talking about Bladedge (Contribs • Message • Email)? The new icon border colors distinguishing crafted from random from named from epic from etc? Yeah, unless something else on the item has changed or you have a better looking version, like replacing one with a red 'you can't use this because of requirements' border, yellow 'non-proficient' border, or even just higher resolution / better cropping, I don't see any reason to worry about the new icon borders too much... You can always come discuss it on the wiki's IRC chat channel or start a Forum:Help_desk discussion about it.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 19:01, July 28, 2012 (EDT)

Items with Different Variations

Should the individual items on something like Cavalry Plate all be created really?

I've just been running an export to chuck items into the database for DDO Sage and came across a few that were missing. I don't mind adding the pages myself that's ok. → Yskuma (Contributions • Message) 12:05, August 17, 2012 (EDT)

If I understand your question, yes. All three tiers of each level of item should be created... At least for now... I've contemplated making a Template:Tiered Named Item or something of the sort that will allow some condensation of at least the three tiers of each level to one page, but I would like to spend some time working on Template:Named Item first. For now, each item can have its own page...

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 15:27, August 17, 2012 (EDT)

Yup, that was what I was getting at. I should be able to work out what the stats for the items will be. Does it matter that I won't have images for them?

What's the plan for Template:Named Item? I'm actually pulling the variable assignments out of the edit pages so it would be handy to know if you're planning to change variable names in the near future.

I have no idea how you put those templates together. The amount of brackets makes my head spin. → Yskuma (Contributions • Message) 15:40, August 17, 2012 (EDT)

Make my head spin as well. It won't matter if there are no images, it will automatically go into Category:Items without a description image so people can hunt down or create images from that list. I fixed the link to the template I have been working on... It is an attempt to consolidate all of the Named ... templates into one universal template to make the editor's job easier filling it in. The arguments used on Template:Named Item are the goal. with all the brackets myself... If it wasn't for Notepad++ I would be in a coma.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 20:05, August 17, 2012 (EDT)

Possible space after Template:SpellPower

I don't see any issues using Firefox 14.0.1 OR Internet Explorer 9.0.8112.16421 32 OR 64-bit versions. Please tell me what version you are using that you are having a display issue and any add-ons you may have installed. Thank you.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) / Kobold worker (Contributions • Message) 08:42, August 17, 2012 (EDT)

I have tested IceWeasel 11.0, Google Chrome 18.0.1024.151, Internet Explorer 9.0.8112.16421 on Windows 7 Professional 64 bit and Windows 7 Professional 32 bit. Only able to reproduce undesired behavior on one workstation ( version / addon details unavailable at the moment, will be documented within 8 hours of this post. I believe modifying the template to put an artificial space at the end is a bad idea for the reason that not everywhere the template is used is a space after it desired. The links I spot checked either had the template followed by a line break or a comma, I was only able to find one ( the Gauntlets of Eternity page ) that had the template followed by a space ( which does not get displayed in certain cases ). Will do more research and update with findings.

Joenuts

Able to reproduce on my workstation undesired behavior of no space being rendered after template spellpower. Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit Internet Explorer 9.0.8112.16421, attempted 64-bit version of internet explorer, 32-bit version also produced undesired behavior ( on same machine ), internet explorer with no add-ons also produces undesired behavior. Firefox version 3.6.24 on the same machine renders the page correctly. There are not many pages which display a space after template spellpower that I have seen ( two so far, Madstone boots and gauntlets of eternity ), which may explain why this is not a common problem. Madstone boots is a good example to work with, as the other templates render spaces correctly after the template. I will try to create a sandbox page and try to isolate exactly why the template is not rendering a space on this browser. It would be nice to know that if I figure out and fix the display issue that it wont be reverted solely due to the fact that the page renders correctly on someone else's other browser. ( As far as I can tell at this point, this is a rendering bug in IE. Joenuts

So, the only difference between your machine and mine as far as I can see is that machine is running Ultimate and mine is running Professional. I am inclined to believe that the issue lies somewhere in that specific machine. I am the 'template guy' for the most part. I will take a look through the template and see if I can find "any" thing that "may" cause your specific issue. I am curious to see if you can copy the template to wikipedia or wikimedia and create a test page in your user space and recreate the issue on another installation of mediawiki. If you can, that would tell me it is more likely something to do with the relationship between mediawiki wikis running 1.19 and Win7 Ultimate 64bit and less to do with our wiki/template. If that was the case, I could try to isolate the problem and submit a bug report on bugzilla for it to be fixed at the root of the problem. Can you find any other templates that cause the same issue? I have copied this discussion to my talk page for any further discussion of the matter there.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 20:26, August 17, 2012 (EDT)

The change you made fixed the display issue, evidently that extra space was enough to confuse Internet Explorer. I have access to other web servers running mediawiki if you wish to pursue the issue further, but I think it's safe to consider this fixed, and dedicate resources to other issues.

Joenuts

This is why I am the 'template guy'... lol I'm glad we figured it out.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 20:53, August 17, 2012 (EDT)

AWB

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:AutoWikiBrowser/Bugs#NullReferenceException_in_ApiEdit.Login Can you please check if you entered the wikia UTL correctly? → 79.130.107.88 04:27, August 20, 2012 (EDT)

I entered everything correctly. I double triple checked it because I had issues with another wiki.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 04:39, August 20, 2012 (EDT)

Spellcasting Implement Template

I noticed you had changed the enhancement template for the Swailing Blade on the Update 15 named items from the separate +4 Enhancement Bonus+4 Enhancement Bonus: +4 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. and Spellcasting Implement +12Spellcasting Implement +12: Passive: +12 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power. templates to the combined Spellcasting Implement +12Spellcasting Implement +12: Passive: +12 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power.

• +4 Enhancement Bonus+4 Enhancement Bonus: +4 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. template. It makes sense to me thats how it should be formatted. However, the reason I had been listing it separately is that theSpellcasting Implement +12Spellcasting Implement +12: Passive: +12 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power.
• +4 Enhancement Bonus+4 Enhancement Bonus: +4 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls. template seems to have a bullet point embedded in it that I can't figure out how to get rid of. You can see that it added extra bullet points to the swailing blade description and in this post. Am I missing a way to get rid of that bullet point?

Susalona (Contributions • Message) 10:01, August 21, 2012 (EDT)

To be honest, I forgot about the bullet... I've added a new option to Template:Enhancement bonus that allows for in-line implement. The different options for the template are now:

Armor --- {{Enhancement bonus|a|1}}

+1 Enhancement Bonus+1 Enhancement Bonus: +1 enhancement bonus to Armor Class.

Shield --- {{Enhancement bonus|s|2}}

+2 Enhancement Bonus+2 Enhancement Bonus: +2 enhancement bonus to Armor Class, attack and damage rolls.

Weapon --- {{Enhancement bonus|w|3}}

+3 Enhancement Bonus+3 Enhancement Bonus: +3 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls.

Implement --- {{Enhancement bonus|i|4}}

Spellcasting Implement +12Spellcasting Implement +12: Passive: +12 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power.

• +4 Enhancement Bonus+4 Enhancement Bonus: +4 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls.

Implement Only --- {{Enhancement bonus|io|5}}

Spellcasting Implement +15Spellcasting Implement +15: Passive: +15 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power.

In-line Implement --- {{Enhancement bonus|ii|6}}

Spellcasting Implement +18Spellcasting Implement +18: Passive: +18 Implement bonus to Universal Spell Power., +6 Enhancement Bonus+6 Enhancement Bonus: +6 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 11:01, August 21, 2012 (EDT)

Autoblock

I was rather concerned to find my editing privileges autoblocked yesterday because of an association with a banned account's IP. My best guess is because I tried to edit a page through the steam browser, and it gave me a different external IP to usual (thus associating me with the offender). Has this done any permanent damage to my record? Is there anything (other than not using the steam interface) I can do to avoid this in the future?

ugh, forgot to sign it, sorry (Spirit) double ugh, found the *proper* way to sign, sorry. I'm fairly new to wiki editing → Spirit (Contributions • Message) 11:30, August 25, 2012 (EDT)

Have you been unbanned? It has done no damage to your editing record. Avoiding the steam interface may be a start, the only other way to not have to worry about it is to meet all of the qualifications of being an administrator, and being voted in...

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 14:20, August 25, 2012 (EDT)

I have been unblocked, hence being able to actually post here.

I'd like to qualify to become an admin, if I am, in fact, active enough. Also, how is there a quick markup for the response to talk which you used above? → Spirit (Contributions • Message)

Have you read through the "Welcome" post on your talk page that tells you how to use the wiki and the easy way to format posts using Template:Post quick buttons on the bottom of every edit page in the button section.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 18:28, August 25, 2012 (EDT)

Thanks for that, I'd not seen that template, makes it a lot easier Spirit (Contributions • Message) 23:56, August 25, 2012 (EDT)

Fully upgraded

Hi, I have a template question/change request regarding crafting upgrade/epic upgrade of items. It's rather hard to explain what I want, I will post examples:

• 1. Epic Spare Hand (Tier 3) - note that the field Upgradeable says correctly "Fully upgraded" and the Location field says somewhat incorrectly "Epic version of Epic Spare Hand (Tier 2)"
• 2. Epic Spare Hand (Tier 2) - note that the field Upgradeable says incorrectly "Fully upgraded"
• 3. Adamantine Cloak of the Bear - note that the field Upgradeable says "Not upgradeable".

Now, what I want

• In example 3., I want to have "Fully upgraded". If I write this text into field "crafting", it becomes a link. I don't want it a link. Is there a way to not make it a link?
• I don't really care about points 1 and 2, but they are incorrect. Fixing them might break other stuff though. Point #1 can be fixed by average editor by changing the location to vague "Epic version of Spare Hand"
• Point #2 is probably a result of epic crafting being viewed as final

→ --Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 06:08, August 27, 2012 (EDT)

Tiered items (Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 AND Level 4, Level 8, Level ..., Level 20, Level 21, Level ..., Level 24) are not considered epic as far as the template is concerned... Your first and second points just need some more detail now, I have already unset them as |epic=, you just need to fill in the crafting section and possible location where appropriate... I will make the appropriate adjustments to my "new" template to accommodate for that. As far as number three goes... No, you can't make it unlinked -- but I probably can make some adjustment so you can and not totally break the thousands of items that expect it to be linked... Let me think about how I can do that, maybe use a different argument and some #if: statements... Not sure.. I'll play with it an let you know.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 07:30, August 27, 2012 (EDT)

I guess the changes work. The side effect is, however, that Epic Spare Hand (Tier 3) is no longer listed in https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Epic_items. It is not clear whether it belonged there. With U14, the function of this category is now unclear. These items share the following characteristics:

• ML:20
• word "Epic" in name

Most of the items also share the following:

• having non-epic variant (exceptions: epic dragon helm)
• created by epic crafting (exceptions: epic dragon helm, challenge loot, event loot)
• having augment slots

Whaddya think, should we add Category:Epic items to epic spare hand and the like? I think we should. → --Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 10:00, August 27, 2012 (EDT)

I'm still kind of undetermined as well as to what now defines "Epic" gear... I would have to say the most important part of this is gear that is created by epic crafting since the whole purpose was to categorize these crafted items... I can make the templates add Category:Epic items to all items min level 20 or higher, if that is what the general consensus is... I just hate to do it because I feel it defeats the original purposes of the category...

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 10:49, August 27, 2012 (EDT)

IMHO, "Epic items" should also be items that you can do epic crafting ON, not necessarily Just those items which are created by epic crafting... ie, items with Epic Augment slots. So the L20 Challenge and Cove gear with slots should be included. (I'm assuming there're upgraded epic items that don't have slots, otherwise I'd qualify it as only items with slots)

→ LrdSlvrhnd (Contributions • Message) 21:06, August 27, 2012 (EDT)

Category usage in templates

I think it's the right direction to go to start using categories a little more when it comes to the items and their properties. I think it may be worth putting some more logic in the damage and stat ( and maybe other item property templates ) to determine what type of page is including the template.

For example, if you add another field to the skills template called PageClass, if left empty, for pages that included skills/concentration/15, the template would not inject that page in to the "items that contain 15 concentration" category.

That would be useful for pages like "update xx named items list" or if someone wanted to do a write up and make a reference to concentration +15 items ( for pages like that, i dont think they need to be in any specific item based categories).

Another value for PageClass could be BaseItem which would be the case where you're on the item declaration page for the item itself ( there should ideally be only one page for each item, listing its properties). If skills/concentration/15/BaseItem were called, the template could inject the category 'items with xyz property'.

If you had a quest and someone wanted to list the named loot of the quest and use templates in the description of those items, another PageClass could be QuestItemList, and if that value were declared, the template can inject the category 'quests that contain items with xyz properties'.

So at a glance, someone going through the categories could say pull up an item property, and be able to easily determine what named items had those properties, and if they chose to do so, select a list of quests where named items with those properties drop. The process of generating the list based on categories would be automated so there would be less maintenance. → Joenuts

I'm not entirely sure what you mean... {{Skills|Con|15}} puts items into Category:Concentration +15 items which is a member of Category:Concentration items which is a member of Category:Items by skill change which is a member of Category:Items.

Once the Item: namespace move is complete and the Skills template is modified to work with it (like what I have already done with Template:Absorption && Category:Absorption items), then it will be a very clean category structure.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 11:48, August 31, 2012 (EDT)

My understanding of the what namespaces can be used for must be incomplete, I use it exclusively for restricting access to pages based on security groups.

It seems as though currently if someone uses a template for an item property that includes a category ( shatter for example in use on the Update_14_named_items ), it will include that page in the category when it might not be desirable ( update 14 named items showing up in "items that contain shatter" category ). The only pages I can think of that should not be included in "items that contain x property" categories are the actual item pages. Pages that list all loot found on a certain quest along with the properties of said items I dont think should be included in that category, but perhaps another category "quests that contain property x items". If someone writes a page about how property x is desirable for a particular class and uses the template to display details about the property, that page should not be included in category classification. Not sure if namespace creation will help resolve those kind of references. → Joenuts

I just read through some of Talk:Item_Namespace and I realize now that the plan is to move actual item descriptions to the item namespace, and then the template will be configured to distinguish whether the page that calls the template is in the item namespace, and if so it adds the appropriate categories. To me, it's not much different than just adding another field to the template to distinguish what type of page the caller is, and include appropriate categories based on that value. If the caller leaves that field blank, then no categories are added, if the value is populated, then appropriate category is added. To me it seems like it would be more flexible to just use another field, say for instance you wanted to create another category (technically sub category) for quests that contain items with certain properties. Would the quest pages have to be moved to a new namespace so the template could determine whether categories get transcluded? Or say if the developers decide to make enemy bosses drop items, and we can have pages for each enemy and we list what items they can drop -on the boss/enemy page-, how would the template know what categories to associate with the page without some kind of indicator ( assuming item is the only namespace to be created and the only reference point the template has to calculate category classifications )

→ Joenuts

A fair example of how using namespace ( exclusively ) to determine categories can be problematic is a page like Deep_Red_Ioun_Stone or Madstone_Boots where the drafter puts not only the properties of the item described in the page, but properties that could exist on the item, should it be upgraded. I've seen many more pages that DO NOT list potential properties than that DO, *BUT* I think it's valid information that does help. In the case where we have no indicator what properties should be used to determine category eligibility, all properties would be used, and if someone says that the Ioun Stone "could" have those properties, it will be shown in that category. I think desired behaviour would be to have an item page for each version of the item, and only the properties that exist on the item in question would be used to determine what categories the item is included in to. If somewhere on the page, a "potential" property of the item is shown, that should NOT mean that the item should be included in the category of "items with x property".

→ Joenuts

Would like to clarify that "an item page for each version of the item" is not exactly what i think is desirable with items with random properties, but more for items that have a locked / unlocked form. The item in locked form would exist in categories that are appropriate to that particular version of the item, and the item in the unlocked version would exist in categories appropriate for the unlocked form. Example: Madstone boots (locked) would show up in striding 20% items, and also have somewhere in the description that upgrades to 30% striding. Madstone boots ( unlocked ) would show up in striding 30% items.

→ Joenuts

I think that is overzealous... Deep Red Ioun Stone should have a Deep Red Ioun Stone (unsuppressed) counterpart already (I know I made it at one point, not sure if it got deleted). Madstone Boots does not, nor do I think it needs one. The single tier upgradable items from Necro IV and Gianthold for example, I think it showing up in both is just fine... People that look in the categories for a striding +30% item, aren't going to just go farm out that item because it just has that one thing on it, they are going to click on the link for the item to see what else is on it, what the minimum level is, if there are any restrictions on the item, AND in the process of doing so, will very clearly see that it is an item that will need to be upgraded to achieve the Striding +30%.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 18:49, August 31, 2012 (EDT)

I think my point may be getting distracted from with the talk about item distinction. If you're already building the logic to categorize items should they be in the "item" namespace, why not change the logic a little bit to a variable to the template so that something MORE could be used to categorize items? With that approach, categories of quests that contain items with certain properties, updates that contain items with certain properties, etc. could be created. Unless I misunderstand the current version of the template, if you wanted to create a category such as "quests with items that contain items with reinforced fists", you would have to modify each quest individually to add the category, rather than it being automated. I dont mind putting in the time to create / update logic for some of those templates, but updating every page that calls the template would be a bit overwhelming. You mentioned some automated process to update pages, if you tell me what tools you use for that I'll do some research and put something together.

→ Joenuts

I just don't think I understand what you are looking to accomplish... I think that no matter what, the best way to approach this is modular... Let's get the bulk of them moved to Item: and update all of the templates to accommodate the change THEN we can look at specific cases where more detail or more options may be desired. I think at this point that trying to look at a minority of special cases and trying to one shot the whole problem might be trying to take too big of a bite. Let's get the modular move, template auto-cat sections completed, clean up the category structure so everything links back the way it should, and create tables outlining all of the items in the category... Please don't think I am blowing you off, I just want to do this slowly and in small chunks so that the final(ish) outcome is as end-user friendly as possible.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 22:02, September 1, 2012 (EDT)

Corruption of Nature

On the Corruption of Nature page I started to collect the info on the different levels of the runearm, similar to Cove & Cannith Challenges (mainly to have something to link to...)... but I was entirely unable to make it a nice table - can you help with that? → LrdSlvrhnd (Contributions • Message) 03:16, September 9, 2012 (EDT)

What do you want the table to look like? Yawgmoth (Contribs • Message • Email) is right that I am busy with personal matters, but I should be able to make a simple table from my phone.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • IRC) 07:21, September 9, 2012 (EDT) -- From my BlackBerry Curve 9330...

Maybe something like:

Level	Maximum Charge Tier	Corrosion	Potency	Rough Hide	Insightful Intelligence	Rune Arm Imbue
15	IV	78	52	3	-	Acid III (2d6)
20	IV	84	56	4	-	Acid IV (2d8)
22	V	102	68	4	2	Acid IV (2d8)
23	V	108	72	5	3	Acid V (2d10)
24	V	114	76	6	3	Acid V (2d10)

Honestly, I was just thinking a simple level & enhancements table (that could be easily converted for all the other Druid's Deep items) - I just couldn't figure out how to get ONLY two columns; it kept wanting to put the first runearm in the first row (with the "Level" and "Enhancements"). I think my mistake was trying to adapt the tables from Cove & Challenges, not the (far simpler) one from Cannith crafting decon lol (I maybe shouldn't try stuff like that at 2 AM...) But your idea makes more sense, to me. Thanks!

→ LrdSlvrhnd (Contributions • Message) 16:48, September 9, 2012 (EDT)