User talk:Joenuts/Archive 2014

HEY!! Check out my replacement/update for Template:SpellPower. It's a PoI that I think that you will find interesting.
    — Zav (Contributions • Message) 13:04, April 27, 2014 (EDT)(Please remove this tag once you've seen it!) · cat

HEY!! Check out Restore nested category structure.. It's a PoI that I think that you will find interesting.
    — ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message)(Please remove this tag once you've seen it!) · cat

HEY!! Check out Popup revamp. It's a PoI that I think that you will find interesting.
    — Ague (Contributions • Message) 14:27, March 11, 2014 (EDT)(Please remove this tag once you've seen it!) · cat

ItemDisplay templates

Item_talk:Small_Candle Item_talk:Shards_of_Light]] So now there are duplicate material components pages with templates which are not necessary and not attractive looking. "No reason ever given for reverting update of page". Sandbox what you plan to do before taking it live. A heads up would be nice. Template use for Shard of light is easy broken and to restrictive on how the info can be entered and displayed (yep was messing around with it while you editing it earlier). Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 03:12, January 1, 2014 (EST)

Note: not going to revert Shards_of_Light at this time, low traffic page.

• Here is the master page for Material_component. Please no more duplicate pages, move the page or ask for it to be moved to Items: to keep the history intact.
• The category is https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Material_components and its parents are set, nonnegotiable Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 04:02, January 1, 2014 (EST)

Note: there will be many spelling errors and misplace words sentences etc. Wow formatting look so much better typing this up
Please keep reply on this page so we know where the begining ,middle, end are

1) If an item exists in the game and can be placed in inventory, there should be a matching page in the item namespace to document that item.

Not all items nor all non items should have a page to themselves. It has been done and it does not work.

At the momnet Items are Clothing/Jewelry, weapons Shields ,Armor , Individual potion, consumable pages. Pages which countain multiple items ex.Ability tome go under Main: as it is a main articale

A redirect page shouldnt countain the name space Items:<item name>

2) All pages in the item namespace should have a common look and feel.
Yhea they should look the same with some way to diffretae them like BGcolor.

When you say they are not "attractive looking", I made the look as close as possible to other pages in the Item namespace. Do you think all pages in the item namespace are not attractive looking, or just the new ammunition and component pages?

You should of seen some of the older templates for certain item, non items it was bad many did not get coverted over well and there was some info that is Hidden from the reader.
Look at both read and edit page of Large Devil Scales.

There are monstisites like this Item:Eternal_Flask_of_Heroism.
Then thier more welcoming then frankenstien up there is this Item:Agile_Belt.

Columns dont go all the way down looks like something didnt load at a Note section if nesscary to extandaded all the way.

There is no max size min/max size for item description image is 420px width
For show pic/ orb is a fix 420x420px or it screws with the page and template. Replace the orb pic with Sword of Shadow.jpg and you will see what i mean.

Purpose of refactoring the display templates is to make category injection much more smooth, allow for injection of categories like chest locations, quest chain and series rewards, [ vendor ] purchasable items, etc.

Component: Displaying the name of the vender which to most players doesnt mean thing, unless its an important npc, what is his address should be on the sameline:

• Alamere Evilbane - Eastward emporium, House Phlarin
• Elamere Goodblade - Westward emporium, The Twelve
• Blamere Netrralblade - The Marketplace Bazzare

Dont say click on the vender link to find them, player want that info on sight.

Shards of Light
The sections were not felxables

Damage: Types are listed verticaly instead of horzital (this list can become long) if used on weapons

Effects: Cant use bullets to display diffrent list levels cant add in line notes or text with out an error message

chest locations, quest chain and series rewards, [ vendor ] purchasable items, etc:
Not flexable cant add inline notes, like (hard/elite) or (Epic), bug

Quest and location should be same same line The Shadow Crypt, The 'Big' chest.
Displaying The Quest name doesn't mean anything which chest , whos chest (brief note if needed)

Color scheme, plain white unless one knows thier Color Schemes, color wheel etc, again see Eternal_Flask_of_Heroism or an eternal wand page on how not set up colors.

"Template ... is easy broken ... ", can you give me a specific example? It didnt like all templates with more then 1k charters. → Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 19:13, January 6, 2014 (EST)

Proposed exceptions ( see below )

Item pages to have common look, different color pattern. That's the plan.

Item page display / image expansion of table etc ( see below )

I like the idea of displaying location of vendor on item page. I think this can be done dynamically with DPL data. Challenge accepted.

Damage type listed vertically, that was a mistake on my part, meant to be comma seperated list. Fixable.

Freeform text in effects ( enchantments ) field. This is a tough one. I'll have to come back to that one.

Freeform text in chests / quests / chains / series fields. Makes sense, I'll work on something to allow for that.

Proposed item namespace exceptions

Bladedge, I certainly agree that generic information pages like what you mentioned ( Clothing, Jewelry, Weapons, Shields, Armor ) have no place in the item namespace.

There is no item named "Clothing" that can be placed in to inventory, that page is more of a description of what defines clothing. If anything, that page should be transcluded on to the clothing category page.

By "Individual potions", I assume you mean non named potions ( potion of clw, potion of mage armor, etc )

"Consumable pages" is a bit different, as many different item types can be consumable like potions / wands / scrolls / trinkets ( think scarab of spell absorption ).

So, for "Consumable pages", I assume you mean "Non named" : components, Food and drinks, Hireling contracts, potions, scrolls, tomes, tools and wands.

I don't want to misstate your position, would the following exception cover everything that you DONT think deserves a page in item namespace?

• Generic ( Non Named ) items that exist in game in the following categories shall NOT have individual pages exist for each instance
  • Components, Food and Drinks, Hireling Contracts, Potions, Scrolls, Tomes, Tools, and Wands

If that is your position, can you give me some insight as to what problems may exist if an attempt is made to create pages for every item?

You mention "It's been done, and it does not work". Does that mean that it's too time consuming to manage? Do properties change too frequently for the information to be useful? etc.

Item page display layout

I'm unable to find discussion for LDS.

Eternal Flask definitely needs overhaul.

Agile Belt, Eternal Flask, even Epic Antique Greataxe page have layout ... hiccups.

The core of the problem is that images will sometimes be larger than the rows of data, and sometimes they will be smaller.

The question is "How to properly handle the extra whitespace when one column is not tall enough to match the opposing column"

On a page like Sword of Shadow, whitespace is handled two different ways.

The shown image is configured to span 20 rows, and be centered, leaving an even amount of whitespace above and below, and spanning 20 rows

The item detail image is on the single row with the tips details, which causes tips details to have whitespace above and below

This approach gives ( what I consider ) extra whitespace both in the picture column, AND in the item details column

Also, it does not lend itself to dynamic rows in the item details column ( adding or removing rows in the detail would change layout properties )

A different approach ( preferred ) would be to un marry the right ( image ) column from the left ( details ) column.

One way to handle this is to have the item details in their own table, the image(s) in their own table, all inside a master table

Then you can control how whitespace is handled independently of either side.

I created this example page User:Joenuts/Item Display Examples to show a different approach of how whitespace can be handled. ( forget about color pattern, that was just chosen to give an idea of where table and cells begin and end )

My preference is to have extra whitespace underneath the item details because I feel that you get more useful information in to a smaller footprint, so that's the direction i've been going.

It would be awesome to have whitespace and layout decisions handled by the skin, but that's a LONG ways away.

I believe that's what you're talking about when you mention "columns dont go all the way down", that's expected behaviour. Considering what I have explained, is it your preference that item details column be even with item images column?

You've been nominated for clown of the year!

Hey Joe, I've nominated you for clown of the year should you choose to accept! ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 17:39, January 2, 2014 (EST)

Lore Legacy Items

Please stop those are not legacy they just need to be converted same with the Iconic gear messing with changes i been working on for the last 5 months Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 15:51, January 3, 2014 (EST)

Heart in the right place execution just is bad .Spelllore is the correct template that just need to be adjusted, its the image which out of date use [[Category:Needs Info-Box Pic]]<!-- Reason: -->. The wranings were to Alert that they have to be adjusted and they were being fix if not by me by others with the warning no way to know on on sight they have to be fix. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 16:03, January 3, 2014 (EST)

Solution : All pages that use the new Lore template will need to have image updated, and ultimately the page updated to use spelllore template with correct details. ( see : https://ddowiki.com/page/Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Lore )

Once no pages reference that template, it can be deprecated, the created categories should have no pages so they can get deleted, etc.

In the current time, I think the broken links were very unsightly, and now even though information is a bit dated, it's not broken looking.

Joenuts (Contributions • ⇑ top ⇑) 16:17, January 3, 2014 (EST)

If an indicator is required to notify viewers that information is out dated, perhaps I can add the Template:Update tag to each of those pages, and also modify the Template:Lore to show a tag that the that line of information needs to be updated. What do you think about that?

Joenuts (Contributions • ⇑ top ⇑) 16:26, January 3, 2014 (EST)

From my talk page the reply, * {{Spelllore|6|Sonic}} = new format {{Spelllore|Sonic|vi}}

• The 1st half of Iconic gear boots gloves belts cloaks bracers just had a update pass didnt reach the others items yet. Use the page history to see what was added if it has Bladedge, Cru121, and some cases Beackly those are more then correct. Also you have to look for other related items and related item mutations in general to see how they should be updated. We know Superior Sonic lore no longer exists any where in game except on 2 items and been replace. Have to play historien and bookkeeper. I have an excel sheet and notes on item changes and mutations, relations, also have some ingame players to asssit if needed. Bladedge (Contributions • ⇑ top ⇑) 16:30, January 3, 2014 (EST)

Lets keep discussion on ur page since thats where it started (and Iam getting lost with all the open tabs).

• Use [[Category:Needs Info-Box Pic]]<!-- Reason: --> to state it needs a pic. Getting new pic easier said then done after a few updates.
• Moving everything to T:Lore when the correct is T:Spelllore with minior adjustments as all the information was already given. Moving it to T:Lore just wipe out what it was to something it is not and adds to what is the correct template.
• Error message could of been easily change on the template its more then likly the #default i said up. Better then the old you didnt even know it was wrong long ago cause it didnt stand out. A catch all Default may not look pretty but those Big bold Red letters catches attention of the reader/editor that states fix me (what I went for and it works). A generic blue link that looks like any other states everything is good here. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 16:53, January 3, 2014 (EST)

If the pic needs to be updated, wouldnt the {{update}} tag be preferred?

How is a visitor to know that the page requires a picture update if the only indicator is that the page is in a hidden category ( was very difficult for me to find, category doesnt even show up when i search for "info-box pic" )

I didnt realize that the only thing those pages needed was to correct the order of the parameters ( simple fix ), and the reason they were left out of order was to indicate that the picture needed to be updated ( another, simple fix ).

I'll update pages accordingly, adding them to the hidden "pic needed" category, although my opinion is that if the page picture is out of date, that warrants the update tag for the page.

Perhaps you could explain to me what exactly was wrong with the update I did on the iconic starter gear?

Joenuts (Contributions • ⇑ top ⇑) 17:10, January 3, 2014 (EST)

.

• End reward is use mainly for "Quest" end rewards. While true it is a end reward for Advancing to Level 15 as itis a quests. But you lump all 4 of the iconics gear as one which they are not when using End Reward. Cant list the gear for each of the 4 iconics, which each having thier own unique rewards if you use End Reward (flexable and creative). 1 Main Category and then 1 for each iconic.
• {{update}} is a catch all, we suppose to use the talk pages to say whats should be change we dont. I tend to use both {{update}} and [[Category:Needs Info-Box Pic]] as there are times other info has to be updated other then the pic, they have thier own C: pages.
• There should be one for Quest XP change there isnt they all say {{update}}, update what?, no idea unless one looks in the history note, Note Ill create one when I get back home cause. Turbines XP pass isnt done yet. Ill be back in a few.... snow, car, food ...→ Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 17:23, January 3, 2014 (EST)

• I've started a centralized discussion for this topic so it will be easier to discuss on Talk:Spelllore templates and updating usage. Thanks ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 17:25, January 3, 2014 (EST)

I consider "rewards" loosely items that can be selected from an NPC as rewards for some completion ( quest / chain / 3rd series 20th series ). And with the advent of a category getting created for starter gear (not my choice, there were two already created ), I thought it fit more in the [starter] rewards than [starter] loot ( which I consider loot to be items pulled from chests ).

There was no existing distinction of one iconic's gear versus another iconic's gear as far as the categories went.

All I did was update all the pages that were putting the items in to [starter] loot, and update them to put in [starter] rewards.

I'm sorry you feel that me consolidating the categories for common gear is "messing with changes you've been working on for the last 5 months', I just want to clean up all the broken parts of the wiki now that I have some more time available to do so.

If you have an idea of how the starter gear categories should be structured, I'm all for that, I'm not a fan of lumping them in to rewards. Something like Item groups->Iconic Starter items-> ( Purple Dragon Knight starter items / Sun Elf starter items / Shadar-kai starter items ) would make sense to me.

If you're on board with that, then removing the quest "Advance to level 15" from the page and maybe manually adding the categories until the template can be modified to compensate may need to happen.

Let me know what you think about that.

Joenuts (Contributions • ⇑ top ⇑) 17:40, January 3, 2014 (EST)

• Kobold think everyone need to smile and give kobold all you shiny! Kobold worker (Contributions • Message) 15:53, January 11, 2014 (EST)

Armor template

Sorry about that lack of feed back real life stuff and other commitments. Pass the Armor design to some trusted ddo players and feed back cameback negative.

• One place the item descrtion box should beat the bottom those can get to long and move out the shown image.
• Notes should be also at the bottom those can get long for some items and push down location.
• this is what they are seeing https://ddowiki.com/page/File:Armor_temp_revised.jpg when viewed in FireFox and chrome.

I have a lot to catch up to do on the wiki probaly later this week if I can. → Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 16:27, January 27, 2014 (EST)

No big deal on the feedback, I figured you had other stuff going on.

Concerning the most recent armor creations (within the last 2 hours), I've noticed there is a lag behind when some pages get updated on the wiki, and what gets pushed down to the end user.

I suspect the caching engine used by ddowiki causes a delay in getting the latest code out consistently. ( I think Shoe may have been running in to similar problems when updating mediawiki js pages )

The reason the armor pages show blank is because it's relying on css set on the main page that I dont believe is getting pushed out just yet. Give it a couple hours then check again.

I admit, I wouldnt like that blank look either!!

It should more like Item:Shards of Light and Item:Small Candle, but with a tan color pattern for armor.

I tried to make each data stored match where it appears in the image, which is why description shows above value/weight, and custom information below all provided information.

( vendors / chests / quests / etc ) below actual.

Moving the data around is real easy on the template. I'll relocate description to be lower (maybe right above notes?).

Similarly, flipping the image is easy to do. I posted requesting comments on appearance on the help desk ( see Item display templates / display modification - rfc ) can't figure out how to link it.

It seemed like the preference was detail image above in game shown image, so I left it at that.

Joenuts (Contributions • ⇑ top ⇑) 17:05, January 27, 2014 (EST)