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Template talk:Slay

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Forums: Index > Village pump > Slay

Which formula should be used to calculate XP per kill?[edit]

I think the partial reward for the slayer are wrongly calculated, they don't use the effective number of kill for that reward.

They should be like the follwing
Slay 10 creatures in The Cerulean Hills: 125 XP = 12.5 xp/kill -- ok
Slay 25 creatures in The Cerulean Hills: 180 XP = should be 12 xp/kill (180xp / 15 <= 25 - 10)
Slay 50 creatures in The Cerulean Hills: 275 XP = should be 11 xp/kill (275xp / 25 <= 50 - 25)
Slay 100 creatures in The Cerulean Hills: 487 XP = should be 9.74 xp/kill (487xp / 50)
Slay 200 creatures in The Cerulean Hills: 920 XP = should be 9.2 xp/kill (920xp / 100)
Slay 400 creatures in The Cerulean Hills: 1,820 XP = should be 9.1 xp/kill (1820xp / 200)
— previous unsigned comment by 46.7.228.224 ( t | c | d| r| b) at 19:17, March 26, 2016 (UTC)
  • So, I've long had a question about how slayer experience is calculated on a per-kill basis. I'm going to use Searing Heights as my example since I've just been in there on a TR. Here's what's displayed on the page currently:
    • Slay 10 creatures in Searing Heights: 285 XP = 28.5 xp/kill
    • Slay 25 creatures in Searing Heights: 393 XP = 15.72 xp/kill
    • Slay 50 creatures in Searing Heights: 555 XP = 11.1 xp/kill
    • Slay 100 creatures in Searing Heights: 887 XP = 8.87 xp/kill
    • Slay 200 creatures in Searing Heights: 1,500 XP = 7.5 xp/kill
    • Slay 400 creatures in Searing Heights: 2,760 XP = 6.9 xp/kill
    • Slay 750 creatures in Searing Heights: 4,770 XP = 6.36 xp/kill
Now, my issue with the experience per kill calculation is that, currently, the experience per kill is calculated assuming a starting point of zero. This is only accurate for the first milestone (10 kills) and is not accurate for any other milestone because you can't get to the next milestone without going through all the previous milestones. For example, at 25 kills, the wiki says you get 15.72 xp per kill, but it's really 26.2 xp per kill because it's only 15 kills you have to make to get 393 experience points - not 25 kills. And for the 50 kill milestone, you get 555 experience points - which is 22.2 experience per kill because you're only making 25 kills to get that experience instead of 50. And that doesn't look like a very big deal on the front end. However, when you get to the higher numbers, it's a really big difference. For example, you get 4770 xp for killing 750 monsters. The wiki says that's 6.36 xp per kill, but it's really 13.63 xp per kill because it's only 350 kills you're making to get that award.
I did test editing the Searing Heights page just to see what it would look like (using preview - I didn't save my changes) and I can see that the template currently used would require updating.
Does this make sense to anyone else? Is there a reason why the experience per kill values are calculated assuming a starting point of zero kills? This has really bugged me for a long time and I just had to ask because I have to know why it is the way it is. Thanks. Coyopa (ContribsMessage) 14:35, September 24, 2016 (EDT)
  • These aren't the only two discussion on this topic either. I remember there being a full discussion elsewhere. There are actually three ways to calculate "XP per kill" in wilderness areas. They're all correct, and they're all wrong. Let's create a table here to compare and then post a PPOI and let the community decide. It's been long enough since the last discussion and consensus could have changed. Going to use the waterworks as the example here because it is the first one that many people run into.
Total Kills Incremental Kills Goal XP Cumulative XP XP per kill
10 0 165 165
  • 165/10 = 16.5
  • 165/10 = 16.5
  • 165/10 = 16.5
25 15 234 399
  • 234/25 = 9.36
  • 234/15 = 15.6
  • 399/25 = 15.96
50 25 345 744
  • 345/50 = 6.9
  • 345/25 = 13.8
  • 744/50 = 14.88
100 50 585 1,329
  • 585/100 = 5.85
  • 585/50 = 11.7
  • 1,329/100 = 13.29
200 100 1,065 2,394
  • 1,065/200 = 5.33
  • 1,065/100 = 10.65
  • 2,394/200 = 11.97
400 200 2,055 4,449
  • 2,055/400 = 5.14
  • 2,055/200 = 10.28
  • 4,449/400 = 11.12

Done As per the votes below, I adjusted the template by adding one more parameter for the previous kill goal. Do not go and hard-code previous kill counts (like 10 for 25, 25 for 50, etc.) because they are not always the same. Instead, all pages that use this template should be updated with an extra parameter.
In case we decide to add cumulative xp and other calculations, the variable {{#var: total_xp}} will hold the value extracted from the parameter |total_xp= if provided. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 08:08, January 17, 2018 (EST)

  • So, the question for the community to decide on is which formula should be used to calculate XP per kill:

Goal XP / Total Kills[edit]

  • If you support this method, sign here!

Goal XP / Incremental Kills[edit]

  • If you support this method, sign here!
  1. Support — First! Cru121 (ContribsMessage) 12:35, September 25, 2016 (EDT)
  2. Support — I think this makes more sense because you're only ever starting from zero *once*. If I'm at 400 slayers, I don't care about the XP I've already gained, I've already gotten and done whatever I want with it. I only care about the XP (and XP/kill) for 750, 1,000, 1,500 etc. I do think the "cumulative XP" column should remain, regardless. -LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 18:49, September 25, 2016 (EDT)
    • If you don't care about the XP you've already gained, then why would you care about the kills you already completed? ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 22:49, September 25, 2016 (EDT)
      • ...I'm not sure, but I think you just argued my point... I don't care about the kills I already completed, just how many to the next goal. The "incremental" being the count from the last milestone to the next... -LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 15:38, September 26, 2016 (EDT)
        • “I do think the "cumulative XP" column should remain, regardless.” The below option is the only one that supports that. So, if you support "Cumulative XP" then you don't support goal/incremental. You're contradicting yourself. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 16:01, September 26, 2016 (EDT)
          • Um... no, it's not contradicting myself. Cumulative XP and milestone XP/incremental kill aren't mutually exclusive. I think they both have their uses. It's not contradictory at all. It's no different than, say, Crystal Cove items having a per-tier cost, and a cumulative cost. I think having a cumulative XP is worthwhile, REGARDLESS of how the XP/Kill gets shown. I think the table should be as above, with the total count, increment count, increment XP, cumulative XP, and the "XP/Kill" being goal/increment. This isn't contradictory at all, simply including more information (and, IMHO, wouldn't be cluttered, which is apparently your objection to showing both "goal/increment" and "cumulative/total"). LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 01:38, September 27, 2016 (EDT)
            • Oh, then you're in support of #Goal XP / Incremental Kills and Cumulative XP / Total Kills below and not this option. Otherwise, they are mutually exclusive. Having multiple values is too cluttered and won't be done for the majority of users, although it can be made that the single value offered is contained in a class/id that will allow JavaScript to modify the value for those interested in multiple values. If you're saying that “I do think the "cumulative XP" column should remain, regardless.” then the "Goal XP / Incremental Kills" option is excluded for that solitary value. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 07:29, September 27, 2016 (EDT)
              • Um, no. Pay attention. I'm in support of keeping a column for "Cumulative XP", AS CURRENTLY SHOWN ON THE TABLE ABOVE. I'm also in support of having the XP/kill be "milestone XP/incremental kill". I am not, I repeat, I AM NOT, in support of "Cumulative XP/total kills". Just keeping the "Cumulative XP" column. Do you understand now? They are not "mutually exclusive", and having both doesn't (IMHO) look "cluttered" no matter how many times you say it does. Total kills. Incremental kills. Goal XP. Cumlative XP. Goal XP/Incremental kills. Five columns, not a single one of which is "cumulative XP/total kills". I would agree, having both "goal/incremental" and "cumulative/total" would look cluttered, especially the way you have it done on that table. But I don't think having a column JUST for cumulative XP does. LrdSlvrhnd (ContribsMessage) 01:57, October 3, 2016 (EDT)
                • This is an inline template for a bullet list, not a table template. Only one value will be shown by default. It'll look cluttered/confusing to have:
                  • Slay 10 creatures in FooBarBaz: ###XP/###XP; ## xp/kill; ## xp/kill
                  • Slay 25 creatures in FooBarBaz: ###XP/###XP; ##.## xp/kill; ##.## xp/kill
                  • Slay 50 creatures in FooBarBaz: ###XP/#,###XP; ##.## xp/kill; ##.## xp/kill
                  • Slay 100 creatures in FooBarBaz: ###XP/#,###XP; ##.## xp/kill; ##.## xp/kill
                  • Slay 200 creatures in FooBarBaz: ###XP/#,###XP; ###.## xp/kill; ###.## xp/kill
                  • Slay 400 creatures in FooBarBaz: #,###XP/##,###XP; ###.## xp/kill; ###.## xp/kill
                  • Slay 750 creatures in FooBarBaz: ##,###XP/##,###XP; ###.## xp/kill; ###.## xp/kill
                  • Slay 1,500 creatures in FooBarBaz: ##,###XP/###,###XP; ###.## xp/kill; ###.## xp/kill
    ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 04:21, October 3, 2016 (EDT)
  3. Support — If I had to choose only one, this is the option I would choose. That said, I'm not sure if only one option is best, but I don't think that viewpoint is popular. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 22:05, September 25, 2016 (EDT)
  4. Support — This is the only correct option. The first one is just dead wrong, and the third would only be correct if we did not get the XP awarded at milestones, imo. Think of it in terms of needing to write the code to award the XP. Tscheuss (ContribsMessage) 09:56, September 26, 2016 (EDT)
  5. Support — I think the incremental one makes the most sense, especial as you rarely farm them from 1-end through. If this isn't used the only other option would be to actually list the range with min/max value, after all the whole XP/kill will be screwed if you are over level. SisAmethyst (ContribsMessage) 18:03, July 20, 2017 (EDT)

Cumulative XP / Total Kills[edit]

  • If you support this method, sign here!
  1. Support — This makes the most sense to me. Not only do you need to go through preceding kill goals, but you've also already collected that XP. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 12:20, September 25, 2016 (EDT)
  2. Support — This is the only value someone needs for the decision if it's worth the effort to farm kills, because this is what he gets. --Hintereisen (ContribsMessage) 11:47, April 3, 2017 (EDT)

Goal XP / Incremental Kills and Cumulative XP / Total Kills[edit]

  • If you support this method, sign here!
  1. Support — Good to know cumulative at start, and incremental at each point. Maybe in a table like the one on this page. penguin8or (Contribs • Message) 17:52, September 25, 2016 (EDT)
  2. Oppose — Multiple values will create a cluttered result. If multiple values are of interest, an HTML id can be added to the element that users can use to modify what they see using JavaScript. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 17:57, September 25, 2016 (EDT)

Popup for Goal XP / Incremental Kills and Cumulative XP / Total Kills[edit]

Would a popup from the xp/kill value be acceptable to host both a note of which formula is used and provide the other formula as well? Faltout (ContribsMessage) 08:45, March 11, 2018 (EDT)

  • It probably would if popups worked on mobile.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 👟 12:52, March 11, 2018 (EDT)
    • They seem to be working in my phone. I click the popup and it appears. Faltout (ContribsMessage) 14:18, March 11, 2018 (EDT)