Template talk:Monster

S vs. Z

That is actually the correct spelling (with a z), but for now this hack will catch both - I can fix PeerBot later (haven't used him since 1.4 so I don't know if he'll work) and run him to find/replace 'orginisation' with 'orginization' on all monster pages. But it'll be a while before I find time to debug him. Till then this'll catch both kinds. `Elliott Cable - ?+¿ - ‹·› 03:44, June 19, 2006 (EDT)

Auto-categories

Why are the categories inside includeonly tags? It would really help if these were auto-generated. Corebreach 04:08, November 26, 2009 (EST)

The categories are between includeonly tags because, otherwise, this page would show up in Category:Bestiary when it really shouldn't (since it's a template, not an article). What do you mean about auto-generation? --Borror0 03:43, November 27, 2009 (EST)

Sometimes an entry shows up automatically in a category based on monster type. Sometimes it doesn't and the category needs to be added manually. Check out Worg versus Zombie. Corebreach 04:04, November 27, 2009 (EST)

Okay. I see what is going on here. The monsters are listed by race, which are classified by creature. For example, worgs are listed as wolves (race) which is, itself, categories as an animal race. However, worgs are magical beasts, not animal, so they end up not getting the magical beast category. There are many ways to solve the problem, but that really depends on how we want to display the information to the user. The most obvious way would be to give worgs race "worg" which would be classified as an magical beast race. Is that fine with you, or would you prefer something else? --Borror0 11:49, November 27, 2009 (EST)

I'd say don't base the creature type category off race at all. Why make an assumption of what the type is based on race when the type is available directly? Corebreach 05:23, November 29, 2009 (EST)

Category:Bosses now empty

what gives? {{#switch:{{#lc:{{{named}}}}}|yes=...}} isnt working. what does this #lc supposed to do? --yoko5000 19:51, May 10, 2011 (EDT)

#lc: just transforms the input into Lower Case. Should make no other difference.. I will look into why bosses is empty, I would like to also revamp that a little so that it divides it up into orange, red, and purple name bosses.. ShoeMaker 22:04, May 10, 2011 (EDT)

looked into it and it hit me, should have been just lc: not #lc: -- ShoeMaker 22:47, May 10, 2011 (EDT)

Not all purple named bosses are raid bosses

Looks like you set it up so we can only have certain things in the "boss" section now.. Which is ok I guess.. But you set it up so all purple named are called raid bosses - but they are not.

Many are just powerful/challenging bosses found in quests requiring some form of flagging. Like the tor bosses, or the dreaming dark guy.

Was gona edit it myself but id prolly mess something up.. Suggest it work like this:

• Purple - just say Purple Named Boss. Or Purple Named - Powerful Boss
• Raid - Raid Boss
• Red - Boss
• Orange - Miniboss

Also see you put rare in there.. imo that doesn't belong as thats a different thing entirely.

If a boss is a rare spawn or not should be a seperate section, if present at all. As rare named can be orange or red, or even just regular (Green) Could just be rare=yes/no if you want it in there.

PS: I made a new category for purple named too.. So we auto-cat into that would be cool too. (purples go in purple, raid bosses go in purples and raid bosses) --Shade 22:38, July 26, 2011 (EDT)

Some more details on update

Ok edit complete.. Now supports named monsters that aren't bosses. And all "named" aren't put into a boss category since most of them aren't bosses. Put them into named monsters category instead which makes more sense.

Took out the purple = raid boss. Since really almost every single one of our raid boss pages are too complex to use this simple template, so they dont use it.. And the rest of purple named that may use it are not raid bosses.

One minor issue I see with having both the color= and/or boss= is it kinda leaves a hole I dunno how to fix if neither are filled. Not a huge problem since one or the other should always be filled, but some generalized racial templates dont use it. Tho maybe they should use a new/different template anyways. --Shade 15:58, August 2, 2011 (EDT)

Boss classification

Since more people than just me are working hard to fill the monster list, I think we should create a hard definition of what is a boss and what isn't. Throwing my two cents, I define a boss as any named monster that is required to kill to complete the quest. If you are not required to kill, it can be orange/red/purple-named, but not a boss. Eg, Tor dragons are not bosses, but the named mephits in Purge the Fallen Shrine are minibosses.

Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 18:27, February 6, 2013 (EST)

I've always wondered why we don't just roll "boss" and "named" in together... I mean, as far as the template is concerned, they are nearly identical. They use the same colors... Bosses are all named... All named are not necessarily bosses. So, I would purpose that we roll boss into named and call it good... Or at very least, change the way that the template distinguishes them... Color is always color. So, instead of having to declare a mob as boss = red or named = orange why not just color = purple/red/orange/yellow? Then named and boss could just be yes/no on/of 0/1 type switches removing some of the template confusion. Just my 2cp on the whole thing.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 19:31, February 6, 2013 (EST)

Not all bosses are named monsters. Some of them use the generic race name and are bosses, like the Ice Flenser on Misery's Peak, or the Gelatinous Cube on Coal Chamber. I agree that those bosses are usually found as common monsters later, and should not be listed as bosses on their main pages.

(Blame on me, forgot about my own discussion)

Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 13:13, June 1, 2013 (EDT)

It is okay for bosses to be named with the generic name, as long as there isn't more than one boss with that generic name. Also, for the record, that ice flenser is not a boss (the crystal "Mindsunder" is the boss) in Miseries Peak. It's not really that uncommon for the mini-bosses like that flenser and that cube to have generic names. They are still named however in my opinion.

ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 17:33, June 1, 2013 (EDT)

The flenser is not the final boss, but IMO, he is a boss. I define "boss" by being any single mob that is required to kill for quest completion. And I classify "named" as any monster that don't appear anywhere else (or appear and is clearly the same character, like Malicia) and exists only one of them inside the quest (like those two named thieves on HIPS). A boss can be a non-named monster, and a named monster can not be a boss. Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 18:02, June 1, 2013 (EDT)

Race and Sub-race

Just a small nitpick that I think may improve the bestiary organization. Right now, the link on Race and Sub-race send you to the page with that exact name (Eg, every Ogre race monster links to the Ogre page, and every Worg sub-race monster link to the Worg page). Would be possible to add in the code to send the link to the {{PAGENAME}} race and {{PAGENAME}} sub-race? Eg, instead of the Ogre linking to the ogre page, it would link to the Ogre race page, where we could centralize racial information, like the wind-up attack and the racial rage. That would help specially with the most complex special attacks, like the Tharaak Hound's Dance of Death.

Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 14:08, June 18, 2013 (EDT)

I've done something. Is this what you wanted?

--Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 14:29, June 18, 2013 (EDT)

The link, yes. But if possible, the name on page do not show up the "race" parte. Like [[Ogre race|Ogre]] does.

EDIT: Looking where you did the first change, I fixed it as I wanted. Thanks.

Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 14:36, June 18, 2013 (EDT)

Hitpoints?

Just killed the Mother-of-Thousands, and since I have monster manual favour, it showed she had 23,055 hitpoints (heroic elite). Do we care? :) Not sure anybody's interested in that but me. — previous unsignedPlease sign posts using ~~~~ comment by 71.125.204.105 ^{(d | r | b )} at 21:33, September 18, 2019 (UTC)

Problem with hit points is that they vary by difficulty and dungeon scaling. You can mention it in the description if you feel it's interesting, but consider adding some reference points (for example, ~23000 hp at Heroic Elite, solo with hireling).--Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 03:52, July 15, 2014 (EDT)

Oh right, scaling. Urgh. So it's not 4-8 variations or so, it's that times party count differences. Yeah, no thanks. — previous unsignedPlease sign posts using ~~~~ comment by 71.125.207.125 ^{(d | r | b )} at 21:33, September 18, 2019 (UTC)

Edit request November 21, 2018

A requested edit has been completed!   ... by:  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟   ... on: 10:29, December 5, 2018 (EST)

Added |nocat= parameter and cleaned up some stuff on what should or shouldn't show if fields are empty. Once this is merged in, I will attempt to make it so it only categorizes in article space (to eliminate accidental categorization in user/template sandboxes for example). ⇒ DDOstream (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:47, November 21, 2018 (EST)

• ✔ Done  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 10:29, December 5, 2018 (EST)

Descriptor

A requested edit has been completed!   ... by: ⇒ PurpleSerpent (Contribs • Message • Email) 08:37, September 22, 2021 (EDT) on: 05:39, August 6, 2021 (EST)

Please copy the "descriptor" field code from the NPC template (sandbox) for monsters too. ⇒ Nom (Contribs • Message • Email) 09:25, September 10, 2020 (EDT)

• Please update T:Monster/sandbox to include the changes you would like to see to T:Monster and give examples of use on T:Monster/testcase2 and then uncomment the {{Er}} at the top of this section to draw our attention back to it. :)  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 12:18, September 10, 2020 (EDT)

Please apply "title" patch from T:Monster/sandbox to T:Monster ⇒ Nom (Contribs • Message • Email) 05:49, March 15, 2021 (EDT)

Update: is "title" the right keyword? Pre-Sharn tends to use the <...> field for titles or roles, but Sharn tends to use it quite liberally for added notes, including affiliations or even just flavour comments (e.g. "not a pirate today" - sailors in Reach for the Sky). I'm happy to go with "title", though. ⇒ Nom (Contribs • Message • Email) 01:34, March 16, 2021 (EDT)

• Maybe "tag"?

Please apply "tag" patch from T:Monster/sandbox to T:Monster. This deprecates the above request. ⇒ Nom (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:29, April 11, 2021 (EDT)

Monster <Title> Field?

I don't know if the above topic is asking the same thing, but, could a new parameter/field be added to the Monster template that would be the place to insert a monster's under-name chevron-enclosed title, eg. <Special Monster>, if it has one? As it is, some monsters that have titles have said tiles being manually added in the "description" field, which is unpleasantly inconsistent and nonstandardized, and many others are missing. Ideally, such a title field would work such that you only put in the title itself, and the template would stick that title wherever appropriate on the page and automatically add enclosing chevrons. So the parameter in template use would be

| title = Special Monster

and then somewhere on the page, you would see

<Special Monster>

I'm not yet familiar enough with wikicode to do this myself, but I intend to watch this closely and if someone else can implement it, I can see what was done and use that as a teaching experience for myself to get more familiar with how wikicode works. Where exactly on the page the title would be put is also an open question that I have little input on, still being a relative newbie myself. Maybe it could go under the image, but above sayings? maybe it could go directly under the monster's name, above even its Type field as a new field like

Title: <Special Monster>

or maybe anywhere else that feels right to the veterans of this wiki. Obviously, wherever it is put, the field would not appear on the page at all if nothing is entered into the parameter (or better yet, if "No" is entered into the parameter), unlike things like type/race/subrace/alignment/monstermanual fields. Anyone have any input or suggestions for this? ⇒ TheWarforgedArtificer (Contribs • Message • Email) 00:42, September 23, 2020 (EDT)

• Why is that title important to have in a parameter other than the description (and the image)? ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 04:40, September 23, 2020 (EDT)
  • I already said. It is currently unpleasantly inconsistent and nonstandardized, in my opinion. I would like it to be more properly standardized. Is there any reason not to have it?⇒ TheWarforgedArtificer (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:56, September 23, 2020 (EDT)
  • So...is there anyone else who can weigh in on this? Someone who knows wikicode and the monster template spcifically and can give their own ideas for how to implement this? ⇒ TheWarforgedArtificer (Contribs • Message • Email) 11:46, September 28, 2020 (EDT)

Improved Habitat Handling

Have updated T:Monster/sandbox to render hcr# and hslay# fields. See Template:Monster/testcase3 and Template:Monster/testcase2. Please apply to T:Monster. ⇒ Nom (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:32, April 11, 2021 (EDT)

• ? Why do we need these parameters? CR is the same for all habitats and when different CRs are detected, it's a different creature by expansion pack.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 23:48, August 30, 2021 (EDT)
  • CR is not the same for Drow Warrior#Drow Warrior (Forgotten Realms) between Impossible Demands and The Battle for Eveningstar which have the same monster, from the same pack, from the same quest chain. ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 04:34, August 31, 2021 (EDT)
    • Is that the only outlier? The problem we had before, that I'm trying to avoid again is people thinking they have to put the same information for a creature a half dozen times. If there's only a few outliers, it's not worth adding a documented parameter for.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 13:57, August 31, 2021 (EDT)
      • My guess is that different CRs for the same monster is common (the developers have plainly said that monsters get modified on a per-encounter basis). However, we will never know how common it is if we remove the possibility to add a different CR. For example Lolth's Immanence has 2 different CRs in the same quest but editors were content after the first CR and failed to notice the different CR. If editors want to put the same information for a creature a dozen times, it means they have tested the different instances. It's good that it's not mandatory to put the same CR a dozen times and it's good that right now you can put the same CR a dozen times if you want. I see no downside. ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 16:17, August 31, 2021 (EDT)
      • Many monsters have an alternate CR in particular habitat# fields. Aside from being non-standardised, it doesn't get automatically picked up in the quest templates, so a monster with an outlier CR displays incorrectly in the quest summary. Creating a formalised field standardises the values and allows it to be picked up automatically by the quest queries.
        
        From a casual editors' perspective, having a quick & easy way to patch a CR is better than needing to decide whether to clone the entire entry. If cloning is appropriate, someone more experienced to clean it up later. And if a monster looks & smells the same except for CR I'd rather just patch the CR field not create a new entry. ⇒ Nom (Contribs • Message • Email) 00:29, September 1, 2021 (EDT)

Template not accepting .png extensions properly

I think I've figured out why the category Monsters without image  is refusing to update - the template only accepts .jpg file formats when checking if a monster has an image, so any monster with a .png file extension still shows up in that category despite having an image. Obviously I'm trying to empty that category (plus it makes it harder to find monsters with missing images), so it would be really useful if someone with the right editing privileges could fix this. Thanks! ⇒ PurpleSerpent (Contribs • Message • Email) 05:57, May 6, 2021 (EDT)

• ✘ This request seems unclear to me. Please reformat this request as a "Please replace X with Y" format, possibly using a sandbox with testcases to show what you'd like.  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 22:26, May 28, 2021 (EDT)
  • Never mind, I was wrong anyway. ⇒ PurpleSerpent (Contribs • Message • Email) 04:01, June 14, 2021 (EDT)

Bugs in latest update

The latest pull-up of Template:Monster adds the 'tag' field (addresses Descriptor / Title requests above), but a couple of bugs have slipped in:

• "{Includeonly template}}" is missing the opening brace.
• Reference to 'type' has gone missing.
• Copy help text for 'tag' from Template:Monster/sandbox

Additional improvements and fixes:

• Copy per-habitat CR code from Template:Monster/sandbox

⇒ Nom (Contribs • Message • Email) 22:42, August 5, 2021 (EDT)

• OK, pretty sure I've got it working this time. Sorry about this taking so long, templates have always confused me. ⇒ PurpleSerpent (Contribs • Message • Email) 05:43, August 6, 2021 (EDT)

Monster Manual/Missing

To me, it doesn't make any sense that monsters which are tagged as being missing from the Monster Manual still show up in the category for that Monster Manual entry, especially as it might imply a currently impossible Hunter quest can be completed on the main page. Can I change this? ⇒ PurpleSerpent (Contribs • Message • Email) 08:29, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

• Replace {{#ifeq:{{IO|{{{nocat|false}}}}}|1||[[Category:Monster Manual/missing/{{#explode:{{{MM type|}}}|=|-1}}|{{#explode:{{{MM type|}}}|=|-1}}]][[Category:Monster Manual/{{#explode:{{{MM type|}}}|=|-1}}|*{{#explode:{{{MM type|}}}|=|-1}}]]}}
  with {{#ifeq:{{IO|{{{nocat|false}}}}}|1||[[Category:Monster Manual/missing/{{#explode:{{{MM type|}}}|=|-1}}|{{#explode:{{{MM type|}}}|=|-1}}]]}} ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 11:07, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

• • I'd guessed what to do, and that looks like permission. Thanks. ⇒ PurpleSerpent (Contribs • Message • Email) 14:19, September 22, 2021 (EDT)

Testcases

Is there an easy way to make the testcases for this template not show up in C:Monsters without image? ⇒ PurpleSerpent (Contribs • Message • Email) 08:11, November 16, 2021 (EST)