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Talk:DDO information project/Magic

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Templates in templates[edit]

I really like the idea of marking the source of numbers as verified in DDO or as coming from PnP. However, templates don't seem to work inside of templates. Is there some kind of escape character I need to use or something? I ran into this because I want to double check all the damage values for weapons and ac values for armors. However, when I edit the entry for falchion, for instance, and try to change the value of the damage parameter to |damage= {{DDO|2d4}} , it grunges everything. Is there any way around this? Dedridd 11:33, February 13, 2006 (PST)

Arg, I hope it can be done! Unfortunately, my huge templaten00bness makes me helpless -- Tihocan 12:41, February 13, 2006 (PST)
Any news on this? I just ran into the same problem today -- Tihocan 12:32, February 23, 2006 (EST)
Looks like it's time for Peer to play in the sandbox... (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.) 12:40, February 28, 2006 (EST)
Got it. When you have a verified or unverified number INSIDE a template, instead of {{ddo|12}} use <span class='verified'>12</span> - it's ugly code, I know, but it works. Same for PnP and class='unverified'. (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.) 13:00, February 28, 2006 (EST)
Great, thanks a lot! -- Tihocan 15:57, February 28, 2006 (EST)
@tihocan, you can make the necessary changes at MediaWiki:Truglass.css - just apply whatever formatting you want to the #bC span .verified and #bC span .unverified classes! Also, modify the {ddo} and {pnp} templates to work with the class - in other words, they should simply apply the above span class to the text, nothing else so that the CSS based option works sitewide. (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.) 16:00, February 28, 2006 (EST)
Alright, right now it sounds like Chinese to my ears, but I'll check it out tomorrow -- Tihocan 22:08, February 28, 2006 (EST)
I think I got it. It actually looks like you already made the changes for the DDO and PnP templates. Thank you. Tihocan 13:58, March 1, 2006 (EST)

Measuring distances[edit]

Suggestion to measure distances: measure the running time (normal speed, light load) from one point to another. Question: is it possible to do maths within templates? For instance if I write {{Dist|3.5}}, meaning the distance corresponds to 3.5s of running, the template would convert it automatically into the estimated distance in feet. Tihocan 12:32, February 23, 2006 (EST)

That's something to add, yes, defiantly. Just OOC... hmmm time to play a bit in the sandbox, methinks! (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.) 03:15, February 24, 2006 (EST)
KK, played around a bit and wrote a simple explanation page. No time for anything more right now. (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.) 03:24, February 24, 2006 (EST)
Great, thanks! Tihocan 09:02, February 24, 2006 (EST)
Just an idea. Maybe we can use the /location command to measure distances. It gives the coordinates of your current postion. If you have two positions you could calculate the length of the vector between them. Should be at least worth a test.--Ziu 03:43, February 24, 2006 (EST)
Ah, that's a good idea! I didn't know this existed. Tihocan 09:02, February 24, 2006 (EST)

Cure light wounds[edit]

Nice job. The guessed formula is 1d6+2+1/level with a Wis 14 Cleric. I think it would be good go check, if the +2 bonus is a fixed value. The bonus from wisdon 14 is +2, there might be a dependency with the +2 bonus in the formula.

More probably though is, that they wanted to make the original spell with 1d8+1/level a bit more powerful. So they probably just exchanged the d8 for a d6 and added the difference (2) as a fixed value. This way they avoid the rolls which give just 2 or 3 hitpoints. It's possible, that this is the same for the other cure spells (2d6+4+1/level instead of 2d8+1/level, 3d6+3+6+1/level instead of 3d8+1/level) etc. .--Ziu 03:11, February 28, 2006 (EST)

I see you got logged in again lol (-: (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.) 03:34, February 28, 2006 (EST)
Huh? *confused* ... I fear I don't understand ... :p
Yes, I also think it does not depend on wisdom. Will be easy to check as soon as I get a +1 Wis item ;) But I remember seeing data on the old ddo forums that was confirming this formula (and I doubt he had only 14 Wis, that's lower than usual for a cleric) Tihocan 09:52, February 28, 2006 (EST)

Lay on Hands[edit]

Unfortunately, this is all the data I have to work with at the moment. I'm going to do some hunting around when I get on tonight to get amounts from other Paladins of varying levels. I can see what looks like a pattern at level 5 (since each +1 extra to Cha bonus adds 15), but its hard to make a solid guess without numbers from another level.. :Ardan 11:02, March 2, 2006 (EST)

Something to work with here, from the Paladin forums. Somebody said that Lay on Hands heals for ( 10 + Level ) x CHA mod. This would fit my 3 numbers, so it would be good to try to see if numbers from other levels will fit into this as well. :Ardan 11:11, March 2, 2006 (EST)
Sounds to be valid. This is the formula from pnp too.--Ziu 07:02, March 3, 2006 (EST)
Actually it is ten times the pnp formula, well not quite but the pnp formula is level * CHA mod, This makes it much mroe powerful and actually useful in ddo, where chars start with 20+HP because otherwise healing 4 hp at second level wouldnt be anything. -- koolkat 09:34, March 3, 2006 (EST)

Cause Fear[edit]

I experienced that there is a random variable in the spell duration. I can't provide detailed numbers, but there is a range around 6 to 30 seconds for the spell duration. The pnp spell has a duration of 1d4 rounds. I think they emulated this. Would be good to figure out how long a round is. My guess: 6 seconds. So it could be that the spell has a random duration between (6s, 12s, 18s, 24s). I'll keep an eye for it when I play next time.--Ziu 07:00, March 3, 2006 (EST)

Best way to find this out is to gather data. Then we can figure out the formula that they used. Tihocan 10:17, March 3, 2006 (EST)

Official website updated[edit]

The official DDO website has been updated with some numerical spell effects. Time to get those! Tihocan 11:05, March 6, 2006 (EST)

Page title[edit]

This page has been moved from "DDO numbers" to "DDO information project/Magic". However, it's not only about magic, it's about all numerical effects in the game, including non-magic stuff like feats, skills or enhancements. Before renaming it again, I'd rather make sure everyone agrees on the new name. What about simply DDO information project/Numbers? Or DDO information project/Numerical effects? Tihocan 16:41, March 8, 2006 (EST)

I intended to combine this with the other similar project (see the other action on the move log) and then split the combination (Information project) into sections - making it easier to categorize the masssssssive amounts of info we're getting - not that we're getting anywhere near enough. (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.)
Basically what I meant is the "DDO numbers project" I started was to find out all kinds of hidden numbers in DDO, not just magic-related numbers. But you renamed it to magic. So this means that either we should create sub-projects for each kind of number (spells, feats, skills, items, monsters, etc.), or rename this project. I'm fine with both solutions, though the first one means we need some parent project to easily browse between sub-projects. I also have the hope that once one spell (or skill, feat, etc.) has been analyzed, the related numbers can be archived in order to keep the page to a reasonable size. Tihocan 16:55, March 8, 2006 (EST)
Option #2. and the main project page iis, obviously, this page without the /Magic. Usually, a slash indicated a sub page, except for Sorcerer / Wizard spells and that's made more obvious by the spaces on either side. (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.)


Been thinking about it. Magic Missile makes more sense than magic missile I think - and naming is all about being easy to use and intuitive. Up to you, tiho - any thoughts? (post by Peerless - see his talk and contribs.)

Well, Magic missile looks fine to me. I'd rather stick to our official naming policy, the main reason being that it makes it easier when you have to create a link, you don't have to search to see how it was spelled by the first people to create the page. Tihocan 14:28, March 22, 2006 (EST)

Just a question[edit]

If a number is not a single simple number (like +4 to strength for Bull's strength), but rather a formula (e.g. 1d6 + 2 + 1/level, max +5 for Cure light wounds), the Verified tag will only be accepted if you provide data backing up your formula on the corresponding information project page (see section below). This is to ensure the formula is correct and can be double-checked by other people.

How do I provide such data? I'm doing my how research by myself (well, sometimes I need help so I post an LFM to ask for a cleric/wizard/sorcerer to come and cast spells on me) but how do I "hand in" the resultats? I simply look on my combat log on anywhere else on the screen that will tell me the effect of the spells? (Yes, I'll try to verify all the spells, it'll be hard as I have no caster toon... I'll create low level ones, so I'll clear the easy stuff.) Lastly, if you see me doing the same mistake however and however again, just tell me. (About checknig what others did, I refered to Tihocan's last edit as I erased something really important by mistake so I went and stole it from Tihocan's.) EDIT: I'm having an harder time talk in the user talk, any page to explain everything about it? :P Borror0 18:17, July 1, 2007 (EDT)

Purpose of these pages and subpages[edit]

Could someone please point how this is not about creating couple god pages? These are exactly opposite to the wiki idea, i.o. having information about specific topic on one page. BlackSmith (ContributionsMessage) 22:09, December 20, 2012 (EST)

Please clarify, I do not understand your question. -- ShoeMaker (Contributions Message) 22:13, December 20, 2012 (EST)

Uh, oh, there are these "DDO information project" pages that contain _everything_ about one aspect of something. Information about NPC's are not included the the quests page, nor rogue info, instead there are couple of god pages that are filled with tons of info. First of all, its against the wiki idea and secondly information that should be in relevant places, are now buried into pages that are huge and heavy. So what is the idea of this information in one place that is actually needed, and should be placed, in another place? BlackSmith (ContributionsMessage) 00:36, December 21, 2012 (EST)

Oh, I think I know what you are asking... You are more than welcome to add confirmed data to the associated relevant pages that it goes to. These pages are more of a researching sandbox to find out the overall scope of an aspect of a number... Like the traps and locks for example... It's a consolidation of all of the quests at a certain level so that if you were building a multi-class, or even a pure class, you know how much you need to be able to disarm all traps at that level... then you are free to spend extra points in other skills... As for the spells pages, it is a comparison page for which spells take the longest to cast, how long they last, how much damage they do, and overall how efficient they are at what they do; unfortunately, they haven't been properly kept up to date to be effective at the moment. You are most welcome to update them, and I suppose I should do some comparison tables and write up some templates or something to do some calculations... hrmmm, I think I even have the ability now to incorporate Google Spreadsheets on pages and that may be more efficient... I'll have to look into that. Anyways, I hope this answers your question. -- ShoeMaker (Contributions Message) 07:48, December 21, 2012 (EST)