Talk:Skill DC table standard

In every place on the wiki where we make data gathering to determine DCs for a number of reasons (Intimidate for raid bosses, disable traps, locks, NPC interactions, Tea with the Queen...), we have a tendency to follow the D20 format, and basically note down the final DC to achieve. However, on the Crucible table, switched the format for a two-parts, where it would immediatelly list the required skill on the sheet, apart from the roll. There has been a discussion going on his talk page, and it ended up with both believing the other is making the information harder to visualize. So, basically I wanted to put the question in the open for more people to give their opinions which format should be enforced on the wiki as a whole. Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 18:31, December 15, 2013 (EST)


 * Now that presentation is done, defending my point:

Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 18:32, December 15, 2013 (EST)
 * Notice that Crucible is an exception on skill checks, that it allow you to talk to the NPCs indefinidelly, until you roll a 20, while most skill checks like that give you a limit on the tries (Prison of the Planes gives you only one shot, A Break in the Ice only two...). So, for any test that you have a limited number of tries, you should put the value on DC-1, and I don't see how (DC 1+39) end up being clearer than (DC 40)
 * Trap tables is another place where plain DC is more helpful, because you can fail up to 5 points. So, a trap with DC 50 would be noted as how? (DC 1+49) for no fail? (DR 5+45) for the maximum limit on failure without blowing up the trap? Or (DC 1+7+42 ~ 5+7+38) to account for +5 tools that do not show up on the sheet? Plain DC is more simple and direct.
 * Even on the case that you are allowed to retry as much as you want, you basically need to subtract 20 from the DC to find the absolute minimum you need to pass on the check. 20 is a round number and easy to do the math on your head.
 * And I absolutelly agree that we need some kind of visual discerniment for checks (plain value) and rolls (value + D20). But I have no suggestions on this, besides changing the background color.


 * No one who looks up something on the wiki cares about what the DC is. They care what amount of skill they need to pass the check. Since you care about DC so much, I'd suggest adding a column for minimum and/or no-fail skill value.

Cdr (Contributions • Message) 20:12, December 15, 2013 (EST)


 * Unless there is a change to these skill challenges to place them on a sliding scale like AC just putting the straight DC is enough and noting that the check may be repeated until succeeded without penalty. That notice is missing and even more important in some ways than the straight DC.

Cdr the problem I see with your method is that it is complicated. If I came at that page cold I would find a system of writing DCs that is used nowhere else, not able to have the old tests updated to the new format and still missing the most important piece of info you were trying to inform us about. I do not see that these rolls are infinitely repeatable until success on that page or Book O Dragons (Contributions • Message) 02:56, December 19, 2013 (EST)


 * After one month of topic open, and the only reply is against Cdr's changes, I'll switch the Crucible table back to the way all the other skill table in the wiki are formated. I hope this was enough to avoid an edit war.

Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 20:19, January 22, 2014 (EST)


 * That note at the top of the page looks nice and conveys the information clearly.

Book O Dragons (Contributions • Message) 16:35, January 30, 2014 (EST)