Talk:DDO information project/Magic

Templates in templates
I really like the idea of marking the source of numbers as verified in DDO or as coming from PnP. However, templates don't seem to work inside of templates. Is there some kind of escape character I need to use or something? I ran into this because I want to double check all the damage values for weapons and ac values for armors. However, when I edit the entry for falchion, for instance, and try to change the value of the damage parameter to |damage=, it grunges everything. Is there any way around this? Dedridd 11:33, February 13, 2006 (PST)


 * Arg, I hope it can be done! Unfortunately, my huge templaten00bness makes me helpless -- Tihocan 12:41, February 13, 2006 (PST)


 * Any news on this? I just ran into the same problem today -- Tihocan 12:32, February 23, 2006 (EST)


 * Looks like it's time for Peer to play in the sandbox... 12:40, February 28, 2006 (EST)


 * Got it. When you have a verified or unverified number INSIDE a template, instead of use  12   - it's ugly code, I know, but it works. Same for PnP and class='unverified'.  13:00, February 28, 2006 (EST)


 * Great, thanks a lot! -- Tihocan 15:57, February 28, 2006 (EST)


 * @tihocan, you can make the necessary changes at MediaWiki:Truglass.css - just apply whatever formatting you want to the #bC span .verified and #bC span .unverified classes! Also, modify the {ddo} and {pnp} templates to work with the class - in other words, they should simply apply the above span class to the text, nothing else so that the CSS based option works sitewide. 16:00, February 28, 2006 (EST)


 * Alright, right now it sounds like Chinese to my ears, but I'll check it out tomorrow -- Tihocan 22:08, February 28, 2006 (EST)


 * I think I got it. It actually looks like you already made the changes for the DDO and PnP templates. Thank you. Tihocan 13:58, March 1, 2006 (EST)

Measuring distances
Suggestion to measure distances: measure the running time (normal speed, light load) from one point to another. Question: is it possible to do maths within templates? For instance if I write, meaning the distance corresponds to 3.5s of running, the template would convert it automatically into the estimated distance in feet. Tihocan 12:32, February 23, 2006 (EST)
 * That's something to add, yes, defiantly. Just OOC... hmmm time to play a bit in the sandbox, methinks! 03:15, February 24, 2006 (EST)
 * KK, played around a bit and wrote a simple explanation page. No time for anything more right now. http://en.enterwiki.ws/w/Help:Calc 03:24, February 24, 2006 (EST)
 * Great, thanks! Tihocan 09:02, February 24, 2006 (EST)
 * Just an idea. Maybe we can use the /location command to measure distances. It gives the coordinates of your current postion. If you have two positions you could calculate the length of the vector between them. Should be at least worth a test.--Ziu 03:43, February 24, 2006 (EST)
 * Ah, that's a good idea! I didn't know this existed. Tihocan 09:02, February 24, 2006 (EST)

Cure light wounds
Nice job. The guessed formula is 1d6+2+1/level with a Wis 14 Cleric. I think it would be good go check, if the +2 bonus is a fixed value. The bonus from wisdon 14 is +2, there might be a dependency with the +2 bonus in the formula.

More probably though is, that they wanted to make the original spell with 1d8+1/level a bit more powerful. So they probably just exchanged the d8 for a d6 and added the difference (2) as a fixed value. This way they avoid the rolls which give just 2 or 3 hitpoints. It's possible, that this is the same for the other cure spells (2d6+4+1/level instead of 2d8+1/level, 3d6+3+6+1/level instead of 3d8+1/level) etc. .--Ziu 03:11, February 28, 2006 (EST)


 * I see you got logged in again lol (-: 03:34, February 28, 2006 (EST)
 * Huh? *confused* ... I fear I don't understand ... :p


 * Yes, I also think it does not depend on wisdom. Will be easy to check as soon as I get a +1 Wis item ;) But I remember seeing data on the old ddo forums that was confirming this formula (and I doubt he had only 14 Wis, that's lower than usual for a cleric) Tihocan 09:52, February 28, 2006 (EST)

Lay on Hands
Unfortunately, this is all the data I have to work with at the moment. I'm going to do some hunting around when I get on tonight to get amounts from other Paladins of varying levels. I can see what looks like a pattern at level 5 (since each +1 extra to Cha bonus adds 15), but its hard to make a solid guess without numbers from another level.. :Ardan 11:02, March 2, 2006 (EST)


 * Something to work with here, from the Paladin forums. Somebody said that Lay on Hands heals for ( 10 + Level ) x CHA mod. This would fit my 3 numbers, so it would be good to try to see if numbers from other levels will fit into this as well. :Ardan 11:11, March 2, 2006 (EST)


 * Sounds to be valid. This is the formula from pnp too.--Ziu 07:02, March 3, 2006 (EST)


 * Actually it is ten times the pnp formula, well not quite but the pnp formula is level * CHA mod,  This makes it much mroe powerful and actually useful in ddo, where chars start with 20+HP because otherwise healing 4 hp at second level wouldnt be anything.  -- koolkat 09:34, March 3, 2006 (EST)

Cause Fear
I experienced that there is a random variable in the spell duration. I can't provide detailed numbers, but there is a range around 6 to 30 seconds for the spell duration. The pnp spell has a duration of 1d4 rounds. I think they emulated this. Would be good to figure out how long a round is. My guess: 6 seconds. So it could be that the spell has a random duration between (6s, 12s, 18s, 24s). I'll keep an eye for it when I play next time.--Ziu 07:00, March 3, 2006 (EST)


 * Best way to find this out is to gather data. Then we can figure out the formula that they used. Tihocan 10:17, March 3, 2006 (EST)

Official website updated
The official DDO website has been updated with some numerical spell effects. Time to get those! Tihocan 11:05, March 6, 2006 (EST)

Page title
This page has been moved from "DDO numbers" to "DDO information project/Magic". However, it's not only about magic, it's about all numerical effects in the game, including non-magic stuff like feats, skills or enhancements. Before renaming it again, I'd rather make sure everyone agrees on the new name. What about simply DDO information project/Numbers? Or DDO information project/Numerical effects? Tihocan 16:41, March 8, 2006 (EST)
 * I intended to combine this with the other similar project (see the other action on the move log) and then split the combination (Information project) into sections - making it easier to categorize the masssssssive amounts of info we're getting - not that we're getting anywhere near enough.


 * Basically what I meant is the "DDO numbers project" I started was to find out all kinds of hidden numbers in DDO, not just magic-related numbers. But you renamed it to magic. So this means that either we should create sub-projects for each kind of number (spells, feats, skills, items, monsters, etc.), or rename this project. I'm fine with both solutions, though the first one means we need some parent project to easily browse between sub-projects. I also have the hope that once one spell (or skill, feat, etc.) has been analyzed, the related numbers can be archived in order to keep the page to a reasonable size. Tihocan 16:55, March 8, 2006 (EST)


 * Option #2. and the main project page iis, obviously, this page without the /Magic. Usually, a slash indicated a sub page, except for Category:Sorcerer / Wizard spells and that's made more obvious by the spaces on either side.

Names
Been thinking about it. Magic Missile makes more sense than magic missile I think - and naming is all about being easy to use and intuitive. Up to you, tiho - any thoughts?


 * Well, Magic missile looks fine to me. I'd rather stick to our official naming policy, the main reason being that it makes it easier when you have to create a link, you don't have to search to see how it was spelled by the first people to create the page. Tihocan 14:28, March 22, 2006 (EST)