Talk:Anointed Cold Iron Weapon

Table template
I'm working on the following table, please feel free to add your observations. Values can be found by "hovering" the weapon in your inventory (not while it is equipped, as more modifiers would apply). I'll publish it when it's complete: --HawkFest (Contributions • Message) 13:53, August 7, 2014 (EDT)
 * There is nothing special about Anointed Cold Iron Weapons. They have the same profile as a basic weapon with the addition of the damage type. Therefore, this table is unnecessary.&thinsp;&mdash;&thinsp;Zav&thinsp; (C&middot;T&middot;E) 18:22, August 7, 2014 (EDT)
 * Your "therefore" doesn't even consider an iota of a potential reader, therefore it's more than disputable, not to mention the evidence. Bah ok here's the evidence... The end goal of a good documentation isn't to compress the information as much as possible so that nothing gets repeated twice+ (come on I shouldn't have to explain this). This would be like targeting an end-reader who would be some search-bot reader, not a human being, therefore it's highly inefficient, inappropriate and of bad practice for presenting such type of data : a numerical page does not consume as much as a paper page, the paradigms are different. The end goal of a documentation is to offer the most efficient and logical way for a reader to get to the pertinent information whatever the context of such consultation. In our case, allowing the reader to have a rapid tabular overview of main characteristics between weapons (or whatever such specific type of item), also serving as a comparison table instead of obliging your poor readers to browse pages after pages of similar data, is a much more efficient and comprehensible way to present any such information. Of course it contains the same data as this pile of pages you're referring to (excl. Cold Iron material), apart the fact those pages offer much more info than what's in the table. Which is why they are linked from within the table if you haven't noticed, in case the reader needs more details about this or that weapon..


 * And this, is a basic technique in designing sound and efficient reference documentation, amongst many others. TABLES, there's no table on this Wiki it's so ridiculous when considering all those places where a table instead of a myriad of pages would have suffice and make things more clear for your readers! What's even more weird, is the fact that you don't even seem to know about such simple and basic notion, in spite of the "All-Knowingly" tone you use in your reply (I tried to see something constructive but I couldn't).


 * Some times ago while looking up the Editing help, I've fumbled on Wiki techniques for embedding such table templates with reusable data on multiple Web pages via inclusions (an economy of resources server side), however in the little time I had for looking it up I haven't found specific information yet. If someone has a link, that would allow for a better integration.

--HawkFest (Contributions • Message) 19:16, August 7, 2014 (EDT)


 * Sorry, but this table is useless AND not universally valid (for example the +7 STR modifier is valid for your character only) AND it can confuse the reader (who might think that Holy Sword would turn his/her weapon into this). Anyway, here are some links to interesting wiki stuff. Good luck with your future DDOwiki projects, but you should really discontinue this one. --Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 00:14, August 8, 2014 (EDT)
 * I don't think the principle of listing objects of similar data/type in a concise table, is useless (which was the point of the debate). Else, please explain why, since all studies, examples and applications since decades (if not centuries) have shown the opposite? It's not my personal opinion, it's a fact, whether or not we're sorry about it doesn't change anything.


 * However thanks for your input, indeed THIS particular table shows some Mod values and as such is useless!... I should've used the data from all those Wiki pages instead of in-game "hovering" (thinking that what's shown in a vendor's menu is the same for everybody, in other words assuming by pure logics - though the cynical could ask "who's logic"..). I'm a newb with this game but not with documentation : after much frustration while looking up for specific but basic information that should be more accessible (when not absent while browsing a circular documentation like in a mouse-wheel), I've chosen to do something about it instead of whining about it.


 * There's already an excellent table for weapons, here (using itself a template data. It could even be enhanced with colors or such for grouping by dmg type, handedness, proficiency/class specifics, and subdivided for each subcategory wiki page showing the same incomplete listing obliging into inefficient and useless circular browsing). Let's face it, maybe that he problem/limitation comes from the Wiki structure in itself (that would be a good reason), along which the results of the search engine could be formulated+listed? I mean, all listings are shown on a category page, and maybe such category page "template" doesn't allow for any tabular organization using any other template data than pages labels/links that have been marked with some category label? Would there be a way around this, or it doesn't have anything to do?... --HawkFest (Contributions • Message) 13:41, August 8, 2014 (EDT)

@explain why listing objects is useless

In this particular case, we are talking about a spell component, which is consumed during casting of a spell, to create a spell effect. The most important information that a reader needs is: what spell, what class, what level, where to buy. As this component is actually a bunch of components, we list them all.

In theory, we could create this big table of all attributes that the anointed weapons have, or a separate subpage for each weapon type... but we're lazy, and very few readers would be interested in this information, if they come looking for info about Holy Sword components. To make a real world example, in a recipe, when you have a table of ingredients, you usually don't need to include a column about which country is the leading producer of the ingredient or how many of these could your grandmother slice within a minute.

There is some information that would be interesting to include, imho: However, the developers have mentioned that the spell Holy Sword will be changed in Update 23, so any information that we add now might be obsolete in 2-3 months. --Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 00:17, August 9, 2014 (EDT)
 * base price (not the price for which you purchase, that's affected by Haggle, the price listed on item)
 * stacking in inventory (if I buy 100 greatswords, do they stack in inventory)? what's the max stack, if any
 * some tip that in a pinch, the spell components can be used as weapons (can they? I never tried), they have +0 enh.bonus and perform the same as basic weapons (link table), except they break cold iron DR (but not magic DR)
 * cannith crafting: can they be crafted upon?