User talk:Technical 13/2013/1

Welcome to another year!
ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 11:47, January 1, 2013 (EST)

Character Sheet template

 * I've thought about it, but I decided to wait until they have finish debugging some more on their end... I'd have to add a new column and Epic levels don't carry though TR, but EDs do, so I would have to make a separate ED column and some other tweaks... I was basically waiting until they go a couple updates without adding a new ED... I'm lazy and just want to get it done in one shot... Also, as a side-project related to this, I am working on (still in brain-storming phase) an extension that can pull all of this from MyDDO / data.ddo.com and populate all of these pages automatically every time someone pulls it up... I've found that I just can not keep mine up-to-date between creating new toons, deleting toons, leveling up, TRing.. Oy vey!!!

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 13:09, January 4, 2013 (EST)

|Watch| button/tab/link issue
As a continuation of the following post:

I emailed Xevo, and he seems to have figured out the problem. Test it out, should be able to (un)watch pages via that link now. ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 18:34, January 5, 2013 (EST)

Monster Races
.


 * Actually, Ghouls and Ghasts both have their own independent section in the MM. I was not trying to step on your toes, and I have no issue with having some other method of classifying them. However, in order for the MM to have accurate information, I was starting with what seemed simplest.  Do you need help in modifying the template to accommodate the MM?  Perhaps add an argument of |MMrace = and a coding for the display to be something like Monster Manual classification:  ?  Either way, I apologize if you feel I was stepping on your toes... I had been waiting almost a week for you to speak up since I made the modification to the table on the MM page, heard nothing and figured I would start populating the categories at very least.

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 20:34, February 4, 2013 (EST)


 * I modified the template to now accept a MM type argument and restored all of the races I changed to what you had them as. Again, I apologize if you feel I was stepping on your toes...

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 19:40, February 7, 2013 (EST)


 * Yeah, that sounds great actually. Thanks for changing the template, I'm afraid I know very little about working with the templates. I overreacted a bit the other day anyway. I saw some of those old categories coming back like a bad penny and posted as a knee jerk reaction. I was having a bit of a bad day that day, not that its any excuse. Thanks for listening to my suggestion.

The other thing I might suggest as far as the template goes is having the race and type field link directly to the race and type pages I have been creating. Many of them already do, since there is no other page with the same name as that race (Quori race, Demon race), but many don't (Beholder race, Lich race etc.) I think people who click on those links are probably looking for more general information than what is on the Beholder and Lich pages. I plan to update and reorganize the chart on the main Monster page to match the one on my User Talk Page, hopefully sometime this week, which will also link to those pages. I figure that from the race and type pages, people can navigate to whatever individual monster pages they want, as well as being able to use the lists at a glance for the monster manual. Susalona (Contributions &bull; Message) 09:50, February 8, 2013 (EST)


 * So, what you're asking is for type and race to link to the associated type and race pages, but they're not all created yet and you're not quite ready? If that is the case, let me know when you are ready and I will make the needed minor adjustment to the template (it's a simple one).

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 10:44, February 8, 2013 (EST)


 * Yeah Tech, that's exactly what I was asking for. I figured it was an easy change but couldn't quite figure it out myself without being able to play with the template more than the preview button allowed. I just created the last race page I needed today, so you could go ahead and make that change when you get the chance.

One thing I did want to mention is that I noticed that the new MM classification line in the monster infobox template is overriding the race line for the purposes of categorization by race. Since the monster manual classifications (Flesh Golem, Hill Giant, etc) you were concerned about are all at a lower level in the classification scheme than the monster's actual race (Golem, Giant, respectively), my opinion is that these categories should not be labeled as though they were at the same level. For example, instead of Category:Flesh Golem race monsters, the category should be called Category:Flesh Golem sub-race monsters or something similar. I don't much care if we actually call it a sub-race, I just think that calling it a race is misleading. In that case Flesh Golem would be put into Category:Golem race monsters and Category:Flesh Golem sub-race monsters. This makes sense not only from a purely logical perspective (following the Kingdom>Phylum>Class, etc. example from biology), but it will also preserve the structure of the race pages I have been creating. I can go through and add sub-race pages (or whatever you want to call them), for Marilith sub-race, Hill Giant sub-race, etc. I have a chart on my User Page listing potential sub-races and how they would be categorized. Susalona (Contributions &bull; Message) 13:40, February 12, 2013 (EST) I understand where you are coming from on things that have defined differences and a flowing tree structure like Construct → Golem → Flesh Golem; however, I am concerned about things that don't follow the linear structure in the MM, such as Aberration → Beholder → Sub types (chaos, frost, etc). I don't want to have to create a massive #switch when I create the "table row" template for the MM table that says these use race and those use sub-race. Do you understand what I am getting at, and do you have any suggestions for how we can make it work? The only thing I can think of is to create the category structure using the linear type → race → sub-race and then create a MM Category with sub-categories to the proper (sub-)race that the MM uses.

Examples of how this would work: ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 13:58, February 12, 2013 (EST)
 * Flesh Golem
 * Category:Construct type monsters → Category:Golem race monsters → Category:Flesh Golem sub-race monsters
 * Category:Monster Manual/Flesh Golem  → redirect → Category:Flesh Golem sub-race monsters
 * Beholder
 * Category:Aberration type monsters → Category:Beholder race monsters → Category:Chaos Beholder sub-race monsters
 * Category:Monster Manual/Beholder  → redirect → Category:Beholder race monsters


 * All of the arguments that the tag supports are listed on it's help page on this wiki (Help:Extension:NiceCategoryList2).

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 15:31, February 12, 2013 (EST)

Item template update / refactor

 * This is wonderful that I have someone else as interested in creating and updating templates as I am. You may find the list of Category:Meta templates (templates to be used in other templates) useful.  Specifically, Template:Int, Template:Scase (Sentence case), and perhaps one or two of the "Dec2xxx" templates.

Okay, so, I've taken a look. Way too many unnecessary variables. Makes more work for the wiki core. Variables are used for heavily repeated multi-tiered algorithms. The attempt to space it out with HTML comments to make it easier to read, doesn't work. I've tried it before, and found it just adds more to the "wall" of code. I usually use Notepad++ to edit large chunks of code (If you don't have a WikiText UDL, use TeX because it is close) in an indented easy to read format. When I get to a point that I want/need to plug it into the wiki to test it, I copy it into a new Notepad tab, remove all line-feeds and unneeded whitespace, copy and paste it back into the wiki. I'm hoping to post the WikiText UDL(s) I've been working on before too long, but that project is delayed due to my lack of Internet from the divorce. Lastly, when using Template:Post, the correct format is  Number of post you're responding to +1, 0 for first post  Other than that, my only question is, do you plan on adding functionality for temporary spell power buff clickies? (Say yes, ) ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 09:56, February 18, 2013 (EST)


 * I've taken the time to look them all over. I've made a couple minor edits and commented some other things in the one-line edit summary.  Here is a recap and a few new thoughts.

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 13:55, February 19, 2013 (EST)
 * 1) While I understand your idea of less editing on the template by putting everything into a variable, these things that the templates represent rarely, if ever, change.# #switch: default values should ALWAYS be marked as "#default=."  This eliminates some of the confusion for new editors trying to learn how to make a template or anyone that needs to add a new value to a template or change the default.
 * 2) If you use a switch, and multiple values have the same output, you don't need to break them out.
 * 3) ** "" is the same thing as ""
 * 4) You don't need to use a #switch for everything.  If it is something that only has two possible outcomes use an #ifeq: or #ifexpr: instead.
 * 5) Spell critical is the proper page name per the naming policy, but I have made Spell Critical a redirect to it.
 * 6) I was hoping to have Template:TemporarySpellPower incorporated into Template:SpellPower and not two separate templates. Since the temporary and permanent bonuses have different names, it should be easy to have the template try and distinguish based on the name of the effect.  ie, combustion +120 is perm for fire whereas inferno +15 is temp for fire.  Further than that, only temp bonuses would have charge and recharge, so the "USAGE" could be something like:
 * 7) ** (type) equals type:
 * 8) *** Permanent bonuses
 * 9) **** Combustion = Fire
 * 10) **** Corrosion = Acid
 * 11) **** Devotion = Positive (Healing)
 * 12) **** Glaciation = Cold
 * 13) **** Impulse = Force, Untyped, and Physical &lt;!--Laceration was merged here--&gt;
 * 14) **** Magnetism = Electricity
 * 15) **** Nullification = Negative (Necrotic)
 * 16) **** Potency = Universal
 * 17) **** Radiance = Light and Alignment &lt;!--Benevolence was merged here--&gt;
 * 18) **** Reconstruction = Repair and Rust
 * 19) **** Resonance = Sonic
 * 20) *** Clickie bonuses
 * 21) **** Ardor = Healing
 * 22) **** Brilliance = Light and Alignment
 * 23) **** Cacaphony = Sonic
 * 24) **** Efficacy = Universal
 * 25) **** Erosion = Acid
 * 26) **** Freeze = Cold
 * 27) **** Impact = Force * Force Spell Power also increases physical and untyped spell damage
 * 28) **** Inferno = Fire
 * 29) **** Mending = Repair and Rust
 * 30) **** Nihil = Negative
 * 31) **** Spark = Electric
 * 32) ** (bonus) equals Spell Power increase
 * 33) *** Proper format is [+|-] ###
 * 34) ** (charges) equals number of charges for clikies * Skip this if permanent bonus
 * 35) *** Any number acceptable.
 * 36) *** Assumes 1 charge if not specified.
 * 37) ** (recharge/day) equals number of recharges per day for clikies * Skip this if permanent bonus
 * 38) *** Number of charges restored at end of quest, rest shrine, or per minute at tavern.
 * 39) *** Assumes a full recharge if not specified
 * 40) *** 0, no, off, or none if the item does not recharge.
 * 41) Finally, great job at remembering the tildes  to sign your posts.  On my personal talk pages, I also like it if you put your closing }} on its own line as doing that adds somewhat of a visual cue as to where posts end.
 * 1) ** (recharge/day) equals number of recharges per day for clikies * Skip this if permanent bonus
 * 2) *** Number of charges restored at end of quest, rest shrine, or per minute at tavern.
 * 3) *** Assumes a full recharge if not specified
 * 4) *** 0, no, off, or none if the item does not recharge.
 * 5) Finally, great job at remembering the tildes  to sign your posts.  On my personal talk pages, I also like it if you put your closing }} on its own line as doing that adds somewhat of a visual cue as to where posts end.


 * On #5, you mention distinguishing between perm/temp bonuses and I'm not sure what you mean. The name of what the bonus is called is its own distinguishing. Are you talking just about Cat: structure?  If so, I would like to get the template working before working on Cat: structure too much, but I was thinking it could be:

I don't think that it is beneficial at this point to define the + bonus to spell power in the cat: structure, however, the actual line of code could read something like:
 * etc...
 * etc...
 * etc...
 * etc...
 * etc...
 * etc...
 * etc...
 * etc...
 * etc...

That will add a default sort to force the items in the category to be listed by power instead of names... Top of the list, less powerful; bottom of the list, most powerful.

As far as your #6 goes, Combustion/Inferno are usually of the school Evocation and not "fire." I think I know what you want to do with it, but I can't quite figure out why. ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 15:29, February 19, 2013 (EST)


 * Yes, I know the line on the actual items is just "Devotion" and not "Devotion +[value]"; however, I expect that this may change in a near future update...

In the above linked discussions, we know what the mechanic is to determine what the power is for the temporary effects, even if one is "special" that shouldn't be an issue using a #switch:. I frequently forget my closing include tags, if you fixed it that is great and if not, I'll get to it within an hour. I don't think we need to create a separate sub-category structure for spell power bonus value. I think that including the value (or some value) into the area after the pipe in the categorizing statement, which groups the items on the category page should be enough. For per bonuses, it would group them as such: 0-9 grouped under "0", 10-19 grouped as "1", 20-29 grouped as "2", ... 90-99 grouped as "9", 100+ this is where it gets tricky and we may have to use some dec2hex conversion to group 100-109 as "A", 110-119 as "B", 120-129 as "C", 130-139 as "D" 140-149 as "E", and 150-159 as "F" for now... Just an idea... ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 07:20, February 20, 2013 (EST)


 * posting from my BlackBerry 9330/6.0.0.706 so it's short and will fix later. Will take a look, make any tweeks needed and fire up AWB to make the replacements.

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 07:14, February 21, 2013 (EST)


 * Okay, so I have looked them both over. Template:Sandbox/joenutsSpellPower needs to recognize 0, no, none, off as arguments for recharges per day, and if one of those exist, don't display " (0/day)" at all.

It also needs to be set to assume that all charges are restored if left blank or is a number greater than the number of charges. So, a person should never see "Charges: 3 (/day)" or "Charges: 3 (5/day)" ever... That template still needs some work and adjusting... Template:Sandbox/joenutsSpellLore on the other-hand I think is ready to be moved. I will move it on Monday when I have more time. I'll probably not be on much this weekend if at all, so that gives you plenty of time to work on Template:Sandbox/joenutsSpellPower some more. I was also thinking we can just remove the "(TYPE)" argument for now, since there are only the two types that I am aware of at this time. The other option if you don't want to remove it is to make it require "|type= " so that it can be used anywhere and will not require an empty argument for temporary bonuses.

Also, as a side not that I just remembered above about naming policy and Spell Power, the current page name uses the capitalization in game which is why it is "Spell Power" and not "Spell power" ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 08:54, February 22, 2013 (EST)

Incorrect Category Structure
Discussions related to creation of our Category: policy have been moved to →DDO wiki talk:Category policy

Striding

 * Striding is fine, look at the changes I made to your final version. I would like them all to have exactly the same format, look, and coding everywhere that it is reasonable possible. Most of what I changed was little stuff, like "Long popup" instead of "long popup" and the &lt;includeonly> tags for categorization at the end should only wrap around the category itself.  Not sure what you are trying to do to Template:Stat, but I do want to warn you that that template can be finicky...  You may want to leave that one for me to take care of, it really shouldn't need much except for minor stuff like a few capitalizations and line space formatting.

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 06:48, February 26, 2013 (EST)

Int
A couple of updates on the stat template. I had to make a version of the Template:Int that catches when the template is called with a empty/null variable. Problems occur when an empty variable is sent in, as the template does not detect the empty as needing to be populated by a default value. ; inside templatecall evaulates to empty.

I removed the extraneous verbage in the exceptional and insightful classifications that does not exist in the game any more ( ... stacks with unlike values ... ).

I removed the 'ability' catchall for items that have a random ability to be "one of" the six stats. I feel that it's not consistent with how other random properties on items are handled. If an item has one of six choices for skill modifications, the six skill modifications should be listed independent of each other, same with ability modifications.

When an item DOES modify ALL six attributes, I think the template should be used, but the items I've found that modify all attributes have their own unique modifier.

As for the noinclude / onlyinclude / includeonly tags, I think the onlyinclude tags surrounding the template that's to be injected is extraneous (the noinclude says not to include already, what's not in the noinclude shouldnt be included, there should be no need to ALSO put what should be included, as that's the nature of templates ... to be included ). My reasoning behind moving the includeonly tag to the outside of the entire category qualifying statement is that I can not think of a reason for the parent template to EVER run any part of the qualifying statement. The statement is there to determine if a category should be injected on the page, the template will never be injected in to the item category pages, so why even bother having the template process the statement? It will save a little overhead, and I think it's cleaner. ( "if you're not a template page, dont do anything. if you are in item namespace, add category" is to me nicer than "if you're in an item namespace (fail right there for templates), if you're not a template (this is meaningless because no template would be in item namespace), add category". The includeonly surrounding the category injection doesnt really serve any functionality. Joenuts (Contributions &bull; Message) 12:25, February 26, 2013 (EST)


 * I'll have to look over and modify Template:Int then, that should have its own error checking for a lack of a value, or a non-numeric value.

ShoeMaker (Contributions &bull; ) 12:47, February 26, 2013 (EST)

Stat
The "Ability" section of Template:Stat was put in place for the Crystal Cove hates on which would can add +# of any stat which is built into a table... Having to list out each one individually would GREATLY increase the size of the table on an oversized page to begin with. Please leave it in. I was also thinking that a couple more could be added based on MotU stuffs that allows groups of things like Mind stats or Body stats... I haven't spent much time looking at what's what, but that was something I would like to look at.

The importance of &lt;onlyinclude> tags in a template, is to have better control over what the template includes. You are correct in the statement it is in the nature of a template to be included, but it is greedy and the onlyinclude tags don't allow it to be (I had one template I spent like a week and a half on that had an extra linefeed where it didn't belong because I didn't have a set of onlyinclude tags).

Wrapping the entire if:NAMESPACE clause in the includeonly tags is fine. Just make sure to go through and apply that specific fix to all of them. ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 12:47, February 26, 2013 (EST)


 * "If" the content was in Item:, then there would be 6 × 6 = 36 stat categories and 19 × 5 = 95 skills categories for a total of 131 possible combinations...

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 09:37, February 27, 2013 (EST)

Stability

 * Almost. I would get rid of the verbose input options and  should be the default the same as

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 06:57, February 27, 2013 (EST)


 * I cleaned the verbose out and fixed the defaults for you. It is much shorter and cleaner this way.

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 09:37, February 27, 2013 (EST)

Few BIG Templates or Hundreds of little templates?
discussion moved to: Request for Comment -- (Item property) template design / structure / naming policy.

Bum

 * Hey jump on IRC quick... I don't have much time at the moment and have a question for you... Ague (Contributions &bull; Message) 16:10, March 4, 2013 (EST)

Edittools

 * Wait, you changed the PHP in the extension to work or the JavaScript portion of it? Please copy and paste your your changes here using <tt> </tt> to encapsulate the code so I can see what you did. That has been a back-burnered want of mine for a while to have one thing display and another inject, it's also a hot topic on the talk page for the extension.

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 20:08, March 8, 2013 (EST)

Unused // Deprecated templates

 * For that one, the code should be:

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 22:33, March 8, 2013 (EST)


 * The reason we do that is because there will always be revisions of pages using the template. Most of the ones currently deprecated this way are still manually put into Category:Item description templates, which should be removed.

Also as a hint, most of the code for those pages is just a couple clicks using the current edittools default section and Meta template Sections if I remember correctly. ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 22:43, March 8, 2013 (EST)


 * I don't understand what you are asking. No deprecated template needs to be fixed.  If the template was merged into another one (like Absolute Law int Dmg) then it simply passes any input into the template it was merged with and let the new template worry about keeping it current.  If it is replaced by another template (like (perm|temp)spellamp changed to SpellPower) then the template needs to be stripped down as much as possible while keeping it's original appearance (those ones are going to be a pain, but I'll deal with them to work out the kinks).  There is no way to know what templates "use to be used" and what old revisions are using them, we must assume there is at least one and pass any input to a new template or strip out as much clutter as possible keeping the output correct.  If your asking how to know which pages to change the template call (like backstabbing to Sneak Attack Bonus we just did), then in the "Page Toolbox" section of the sidebox is a link "What links here" that takes you to a list of pages that link to or transclude the page you are on or you can simply type it into your URL bar as ddowiki.com/page/Special:WhatLinksHere/{FULLPAGENAMEE}

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 06:46, March 9, 2013 (EST)


 * Huh?

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FF00AA;">&bull; ) 09:29, March 9, 2013 (EST)

Javascript watchlist update
discussion moved to: User_talk:Joenuts/Watchlist.js

Inquisitor Gnomon
Dear KW,

Went to the NPC page and attempted to replace a "no pic" image with an image of Gnomon as he appears inside Bogwater Tavern (seated). Received a message that the page was locked to edits. I uploaded the image and added a small summary but it is not linked to anything.

I also have a pic of Gnomon as he appears when you first meet him inside the cultist's base (standing) but have not uploaded that pic yet.

Anyone with the rights to add the pic can just grab it and do so.

I'll upload the second pic as well if you wish to use it instead. The second one doesn't have the blue quest completion symbol above it.

Gnomon 1 seated

Gnomon 2 standing

Peace

Xeno

common.css updates

 * It's a project I am working on. I'll comment them out for now.  It'll end up being a widget that will allow for the change.  It doesn't work on the site's default skin anyways.

ShoeMaker (Contributions <span style="text-decoration: blink; color: #FA88AF;">• Message) 13:57, March 27, 2013 (EDT)