User talk:Delphis

Hello Delphis. I noticed you have removed several of my maps... Can you tell me the reason why you are doing it? Maybe you don't find them informative or detailed enough? - Mjoll

Mjoll
Well, I wanted my map to be available to others as well and I actually added a second map to the page. But someone came along and removed the secondary map option and had just mind on there. I thought it was ok to do that and that's what I've been doing. I'm changing those quest page to way I planned it to be done. I hope it's satisfactory. Thanks for asking about that. Wasn't sure if you were still around. :) -- Delphis


 * ah, that was me. see Talk:The Storehouse's Secret. i really dont have preference and not saying which of you guys' maps are better. --yoko5000 00:50, August 30, 2010 (EDT)
 * oh and delphis, can you rethink about naming of your images? currently, mojoll's maps are M_questname.png and yours are M_questname.jpg. not very easy to tell. --yoko5000 01:13, August 30, 2010 (EDT)
 * Good point about the naming of the maps. I've always thought the M stands for Maps.  haha  I'll change it.
 * Uhmm ... I indeed assumed that M for map as well, why the name of the author need to be in the file name, as it is visible in the file window who uploaded a file --SisAmethyst 11:22, November 21, 2010 (EST)


 * Two maps for each quest is a bit redundant since it looks like you use a map legend very similar to mine but with different symbols, even more redundant when there are 220+ maps on the wiki using my map legend. But, as long as you don't remove or edit my maps, I don't have a problem with some quests having an alternate map. And the easiest way to see if I'm around or not is to check the date of my latest contributions to the wiki. - Mjoll


 * Just jumping in here and I agree to Mjoll that more than one map is a bit too much of redundancy. not to mention that memory space we consume for all the pictures then. I think if we have a quest that already has a map, we can keep that map how it is, except there are big errors in the map and in that case one still can first contact the author of the map. Maybe we could add a Category or other link that then may show all available maps and pictures for a specific Quest in case someone need and want more information. However nice work on the maps! --SisAmethyst 11:22, November 21, 2010 (EST)


 * Sorry to be late to the party but I think we need this is an important issue and we need to address it.


 * Our primary goal should always to provide the users with the best user experience. Leaving multiple maps on a single page, in spite of the redundancy, or not replacing an old map by a new, superior one is not in the user's best interest. To demonstrate this, replace "map" by "edit" and the right policy becomes quite clear: you wouldn't have multiple versions of a paragraph on the same article nor would you avoid improving an article simply because it contains no major flaws.


 * In the case of The Storehouse's Secret, I would lean toward Delphis' map based on the fact that the legend is simpler and on the map but we can put this up to a vote and/or debate if deemed necessary. In fact, if anyone has any arguments as to why two maps on that page, rather than one, is not redundant I would like to hear it. Likewise if you believe that Mjoll's page is a superior choice to Delphis' for The Storehouse's Secret. We need to establish what policy is best for the users and then stick to it, even if it means that our work is replaced by someone else's. --Borror0 08:30, December 10, 2010 (EST)


 * There is nothing I can do if Delphis wants to make another set of maps but I find it odd too to have 2 sets of maps, especially when the second set uses almost the same notation standards as the ones I came up with but with different symbols. If you need some pros and cons, differences and similarities... I don't use ingame map symbols for my maps, I figure they will just confuse players if a symbol means one thing ingame and another thing on my map. And my symbols don't change their meaning from one map to another, I don't use one symbol to mark a collectable, NPC or quest item on one map and then use a different symbol to mark the same thing on another map.


 * But Delphis' maps have the advantage of having the map legend on the map, I give him that. When I started making maps I gave some thought to the idea of placing the legend on the actual map but I dismissed it, there are some nuances to some of the symbols I am using that can't be expressed with just 2-3 words on a normal map legend. And I thought that people will eventually remember what each of the 15-16 symbols means since they are used over and over again for more than 250 maps. by Mjoll 11:46, December 10, 2010 (EST)


 * You guys are right on the redundancy about the maps. There was a few location that there wasn't a need for a second map.  I see that and I haven't gone through some of the quest to decide on that.  But currently for the past week, the second map that I have added did have extra info or shall I say, a different type of view on the map like a mix in the map where 1st level and 2nd level will bleed on top of each other.  I will, in a sense split them up so it can be view more clearly.  One prime example, The Tear of Dhakaan.  As for my symbols that I use, well Mjoll is correct where I use an ingame icon on my map.  Hinze why I use a legend on all my map.  At least I use some kind of uniformity.  --Delphis 12:43, December 10, 2010 (EST)


 * The problem I have with your maps, Mjoll, is that most users won't memorize all your symbols by heart. If they would, that'd be great, but most users are not likely to use maps that heavily. Now, not having a legend directly on the map wouldn't be an issue if the symbols were intuitive but I strongly doubt that most users will deduct that a white square stands for a collectable or that a white square with a black dot indicates the presence of a friendly NPC.


 * With that said, I see what you mean about Delphis use icons. The reuse of in-game icons to mean different things can (or, at the very least, could) be confusing and likewise if the symbols are not used consistently from map to map. Delphis, if you're going to create new maps to replace Mjoll's, you should chose better symbols - ones whose meaning is intuitive - and use those symbols consistently from map to map. As I'm sure you'll agree, it's not a productive use of your time to create new maps that are not significantly better to the previous ones.


 * That's for the maps. Now, about the wiki itself, whenever a new map is considered to replace the previous one, discuss it on the talk page. Try to get reach consensus as to which map is better. It's a wiki: cooperate and collaborate, people. If there are advantages to both maps, then try to fit all the advantages into one map. Just like we would do for anything else on the wiki. --Borror0 14:30, December 10, 2010 (EST)


 * I'll see what I can do about the map legend being placed on the map itself. I have a rough idea about how I am going to do it but I'll need to sit on it for a couple of days, there is a lot of work involved and I want to get it right from the beginning. by Mjoll 07:35, December 11, 2010 (EST)

Tangleroot Gorge
The map lists Hraggakh the Brutal at the very north, with Jana the Barmaid... however, I've never seen anybody there by that name, and the Rare Encounters list doesn't have a spot for him... is this an old map that needs a bit of tweaking? -LrdSlvrhnd 00:01, November 17, 2010 (EST)
 * Good point. I've always seen Jana the Barmaid and never Hraggakh the Brutal.  I'm only guessing that Hraggakh and Jana are probably a random where someone will get Hraggakh and someone get Jana.
 * The last times I have run that area there was indeed a Barmaid. However she is not directly infront of the door but to the right, where you have to jump up! --SisAmethyst 08:30, November 27, 2010 (EST)

Maps
I'm going to revamp my whole map system. Plus I'll be putting my maps on external websites. The only one that will still be here will be maps of mine that has extra info on them. The first map maker is a great guy and he does have a good system. I don't want to intrude on his design. As for the me, I've always been into making map since I've been playing D&D before the 2nd edition came out and way before DDO. Once I've done all this, I'll have one of the superusers with delete rights delete most of them so the space on the system could be freed up. --Delphis 23:07, December 10, 2010 (EST)
 * Cool. Looking forward to see your work. Also, don't forget to sign your comments on talk pages. ;) --Borror0 08:09, December 11, 2010 (EST)