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User talk:Technical 13

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Hey! Respectful disagreement re Emotes. Maybe just need their own subsection - see my thoughts here: Talk:Emote. No rush, hardly time-critical. :) C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 23:21, January 8, 2016 (EST)

Bump - Been a week, so I'll go ahead and just separate the 2 sub-groups on the existing Chat/Commands page in a couple days if you have no comment. All good, later, C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 15:22, January 15, 2016 (EST)
  • I've been stupid busy. What was this conversation about? ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 16:31, January 15, 2016 (EST)
    • NP, figured as much. In a nutshell, a week ago I had moved "emotes" to their own page, and you reverted, keeping them combined w/ /commands on the chat page. I understand WIKI "KISS" reasoning etc., but I feel they ~are~ markedly diff than in-game /commands. I think they should (at least) have their own separate subsection on same /chat command page. (full reasoning here: Talk:Emote). Unless you object, I'll do that w/ code that had been on separate page. C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 18:27, January 15, 2016 (EST)
      • I thought I had said it's fine to put them in their own section on the page, but not to split it out into it's own page. Too many pages on the same topic makes it harder to search for topics. I may not of, my memory isn't what it used to be... ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 21:04, January 15, 2016 (EST)

Hireling pages[edit]

On another topic - the Table on this hirelings page was too messed up to read, and I didn't know how to fix it w/ Template:Hirelings_phantom. I copied the table code from the main List of Hirelings page, but that one doesn't use the Template. I ~did~ save all existing code as a comment below the (now legible) current table. You were the last to edit that page, so figured you'd know best how to proceed, if any correction needs to be made at all. (If you want to line me out, happy to do the work, just lemme know what/how, or where to read up on it.) Thx, C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 15:22, January 15, 2016 (EST)

  • You should never use T:Hirelings phantom. All of the hireling pages are likely borked right now as it will be a major project for me to go through and build all the new templates for all of them. Still on my list of things to do, but it is a fairly complicated template system (yes, system), so it'll be awhile before I can get around to it. You'd have to have lots of template/DPL experience to figure it out, so it's likely best left to someone with that level of knowledge (maybe Zav (Contribs • Message) or ... not sure who else has that level of knowledge that is active). ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 16:31, January 15, 2016 (EST)
    • I found it there (but broken), that's the only reason I even asked. K, old-school hard-coded table works for now, and I (clearly) need the practice anyway. C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 18:27, January 15, 2016 (EST)

29 Edits and NOT counting...[edit]

btw - When I first landed here a week ago, you had edited my User home page by removing full code to Edit Counter and replacing w/ a Template for same - cool in theory, but it seems to be "not" counting, stuck on "29 and counting" for well over +100 edits since. Best fix? Thoughts? C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 18:27, January 15, 2016 (EST)

  • Not automatic (yet). Manually update it once every tier or 300-500 edits... ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 21:07, January 15, 2016 (EST)

All Good[edit]

In order - Agreed, will do; (Resolved); & Roger that. Afaic this can all be wiped clean. Get some sleep, brother. o7 C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 01:42, January 16, 2016 (EST)

New account welcome[edit]

You asked me about a design for MW:Welcomecreation-msg. I like the way this looks and works. Obviously it has a completely different purpose. You could change the sort button into next and previous buttons or a submit button. You could have one question at a time or all of them on the screen at once. I figure the code for selecting categories from a list could be used to ask which servers the user plays on. Are the question responses going to be used to create a first talk page post or a blurb on the user page? If so, I would suggest not automatically saving but preloading it so the user has the option to edit it before saving. — Zav(T·C) 19:06, January 16, 2016 (EST)

  • Funny you mention it. lol I just created a TESTNEW account to see what creating an account currently does to get an idea for working on this project. I was thinking a simpler version of The Wikipedia Adventure customized for DDOwiki. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 20:26, January 16, 2016 (EST)
    • That would work too. I've never run through TWA, but it would be useful to have a learning exercise for new editors. — Zav(T·C) 20:40, January 16, 2016 (EST)

Why keep page?[edit]

Why are we keeping this page Talk:Trade_between_charactors? It reads more like a forum post, there is no actual article behind the "talk", the Trade page covers it all plus more, and (almost) nothing links to it. If there is a reason, what's the rationale that I'm missing? (Also, a quick edit note as to ~why~ you are reverting will help me understand local Wiki policy better, thx!) C-Hound (ContribsMessage) 17:39, January 18, 2016 (EST)

  • Talk pages are not blanked or deleted. They keep record of discussions and are suppose to look like forum posts. They are for wiki discussion, not for visitor research. :) ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 17:54, January 18, 2016 (EST)
Sure, but they are supposed to discuss the article in question, not be created in and of themselves, right? That page was never "for Wiki discussion", the answer was never molded into any page (until Trade) - it was a player's personal question, pure and simple. Which is what the forums are for. Maybe move it to the Talk on that Trade page?C-Hound (ContribsMessage)

Regarding Template:Stat[edit]

No issue with you reverting my change, but then why is User:JJMC89 policing my edits for something he is either wrong about or that doesn't matter? See Item:Diamond of Spooky Wisdom +2 and Item:Diamond of Spooky Intelligence +2. I don't appreciate nitpicking on things that are irrelevant and I don't like being pulled between 2 admins who differ on what is correct or incorrect. Thanks. Susalona (ContribsMessage) 21:44, January 20, 2016 (EST)

  • The reason it is all caps in the example section of the template is to show that the template is coded cleverly enough to not care about what case is used with the template. That said, it's good practice to use the normal proper case on articles (knowing the the template won't care if you accidentally type SPooky or sPooky instead of Spooky) for the sake of readability. Zav (Contribs • Message) polices my edits sometimes too, it doesn't break anything and calms an apparent pet peeve of his, so I just let it be. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 22:03, January 20, 2016 (EST)


Looking to update this but running into a couple issues and would like a couple pointers if possible.

  1. Old items (pre-U29) used Wizardry I to XI for 25 to 275 spellpoints. Newer items use integers, and those integers are exactly the spellpoints you get. The current template uses something that converts integers to roman numerals. I was wondering if a reverse tool existed (convert roman numeral to integer) and if we can then multiply this result by 25 prior to returning it, but I'm not sure where to even begin looking for this.
  2. In general, what style of coding does the Wiki use, and what's a good place to learn this code better?

Thanks in advance. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 17:39, February 2, 2016 (EST)

  • There is {{Roman2Dec}} (available from the "Template Functions" version of the edit tools below). You're also going to want to use {{Int}} to display numbers probably. As for style of coding, it's not really 'defined' since only like 3 people do it, but you can probably get the idea based on checking out existing templates. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 18:19, February 2, 2016 (EST)
    • I have it completely done up in Python, and working relatively well. I just can't find some of the tools I need to get it done in wikicode. I've posted the Python version (including a romantodec conversion) in the discussion page User_Talk:Habreno/Wizardry for the proposed rewrite; if there's some source I'm missing please link it. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 17:29, February 15, 2016 (EST)
      • YAY! I think we have it! See User:Habreno/Wizardry. Still needs the Categorization, but that's not as difficult. Of importance: None of the old pages should have to be updated, unless they expressed the Wizardry in an integer format instead of a Roman Numeral format. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 00:57, February 29, 2016 (EST)
        • Updated with a second parameter (which defaults to Enhancement if unlisted, to keep compatibility with old templates). A lot of items will need updating to properly show (a lot of items used Ints instead of Roman Numerals...); I could go through them manually or perhaps there's a bot that'd be able to do it? Habreno (ContribsMessage) 16:21, February 29, 2016 (EST)
          • I could do it with Kobold sneak (Contribs • Message), but I'd need a list of pages and what changes need to be made. Also, those items will probably all need new screenshots anyways. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 17:30, February 29, 2016 (EST)
            • Awesome. I'll throw a list of pages on User_Talk:Habreno/Wizardry under its own section. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 18:18, February 29, 2016 (EST)
              • The list will probably be something like Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Wizardry, no? ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 18:36, February 29, 2016 (EST)
                • Not necessarially; most of it's simply item pages. A lot of the other pages on that list are autofilled by various categories and don't actually have anything on them specifically to update. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 20:34, February 29, 2016 (EST)
                EDIT: It appears that some of the Category pages may in fact also need inclusion on the page list. Let me go through that entire list of pages and see if it's a better starting point. Habreno (ContribsMessage) 20:41, February 29, 2016 (EST)

U29 Armors[edit]

I noticed that the armors availaible from Legendary Tempests Spine and Legendary Hox show PARRYING numbers in the tooltip (barter box) that differ from the current wiki pages. I cannot confirm which is correct as I don't own any of these armors. If someone can confirm I can amend the pages (or not) as neccessary. Eddivan (ContribsMessage) 17:37, May 24, 2016 (EDT)

  • Do you have a specific list of pages? I have some of the armors, and could probably get others pretty easy from guildies linking or whatnot. Thanks. ShoeMaker (ContribsMessage) 17:48, May 24, 2016 (EDT)

Monster Manual[edit]

I'd appreciate your input on what to do with Jeets Shimis. Under the "I Dream of Jeets section", he has a monster manual type of Halfling, with a comment stating "unkillable", but he's not in MM. It's not that he's missing from MM, because he doesn't get killed, and therefore should not appear in MM. What would you do with him? Give him a MM type of None?

Same deal with Rand. I suspect Super-Ego can't be killed either, and therefore also falls into this category. Eeepy (ContribsMessage) 18:16, July 2, 2016 (EDT)

  • He's not killable, and I wouldn't consider him a monster. I found another one like that and I changed it to use the NPC template instead. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 19:01, July 2, 2016 (EDT)


looking good. like the additions (new information). see your section on the very bottom? :P--Uurlock (ContribsMessage) 13:47, September 5, 2016 (EDT)

Single monster and list of monsters in one habitat[edit]

Hey there.

This finally looks good enough to ask for review. All of it is still unoptimized, kludgy-but-solid-enough and expected to change as necessary, but for the first time it does what I want it to do. I didn't even try automatic categorization, since I still have difficulties understanding the flow of some of that in {{Monster}} and elsewhere, so if this gets green-lighted, it will probably need your expertise. Moreover, it does away with the numbered habitatNN and hnoteNN: forgive me, but while trying to make this system work with them, I got blinded by the flash of genius of how to make it work without them. As I said, it's all expected to change as necessary.

Let me show you what I have now:

The first two links go to monster pages using an almost-standard {{Monster}} and a few other templates and phantom templates.

Magefire Cannon has its auxiliary templates inside its own parameter "habitat", unnumbered to get skipped by {{Monster}}, one row per aux template. Kobold Shaman has its aux templates outside of {{Monster}}, with some aux templates exploded for readability. They all work the same, as far as this system is concerned.

Both pages are full of overkill extraneous and/or unlikely and/or plain wrong data, in order to try functionality of the whole system. Both pages sport a dpl table that I believe should eventually be embedded in {{Monster}}, with all the due modifications. The dpl code in each page queries the very same page itself, pulls out data from {{Monster}} first; then, row by row, the queries override default data from {{Monster}} if there's a same-named parameter in the aux template corresponding to the habitat in question. This can (and most likely will) produce a table with mostly identical rows: I've left Kobold Shaman actual data almost intact in order to show just that. On the other hand there are examples of monsters with severely variable data from habitat to habitat.

The third link goes directly to a few examples of what in my mind should become the monsters section of {{Quest}}. It works similarly, but with no self-querying; row by row, dpl pulls out default monster data first, then a sub-query checks aux templates, and if the habitat is the right one, it overrides default monster data as necessary.

As you can see, the testbed quests don't even exist. I planned to use User:Aldyron/Sandbox/Missing in Action as a testbed for interaction with {{Quest}}, but I doubt it will be necessary.

Oh, while I was at it, I put in a new parameter called "group", that I intended to suggest for inclusion in {{Monster}}, useful for, say Devil Assault (quest) or The Storm Horns.

I'm at your disposal to discuss the whole thing, but not before tomorrow: right now I have 16:9, rectangular, pipe-shape-slotted eyes and I don't want to see any more dpl code for at least 24 hours! :-))

Aldyron (ContribsMessage) 16:35, October 11, 2016 (EDT)

  • I see what you've done and it looks like a lot of extra end user work (which the purpose of the changes is to reduce long term end user work). I'll have to look at it again and maybe play with it a little, but it looks over complicated at first glance. Maybe I can make it simpler. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 19:38, October 11, 2016 (EDT)
  • On that matter, I'd like to point out that numbering similar-named parameters, while useful for programming purposes, is also extra end-user work. I silently did the extra work until now, but since the topic came out... Case in point, Lesser Gray Ooze, freshly edited: I deleted two habitatNN lines, so after that I had to edit another 29 lines (i.e., the whole habitatNN/hnoteNN block) to correct the numbering. Just my opinion.
Aldyron (ContribsMessage) 19:47, October 12, 2016 (EDT)
  • It's not really extra work. Once they are all gone through and initially set to the current set of the game, it's just a matter of adding them as they appear in new quests. It's unlikely that once a monster is in a quest it will ever be removed. For that matter, the template should allow for a certain size gap in numbering to make it so renumbering manually is not needed (I can write a simple bot script for maint purposes but it won't affect the display any). The English Wikipedia allows for a gap of 5 numbers per set (so, 1, 2, 3, 8, 9, 12 is fine but 1, 2, 3, 24, 25, 30 is not). ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 20:20, October 12, 2016 (EDT)
    In fact, I just created T:Monster/sandbox to test the issue with gaps, they don't have to be renumbered at all. So, no additional work there. Smile ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 20:34, October 12, 2016 (EDT)

Broken template[edit]

It appears you made changes to Template:Enhancement table/item that broke it. Witness the formatting errors on nearly every row of Pale_Master_enhancements. Hoopy Froodle (ContribsMessage) 18:17, October 12, 2016 (EDT)

  • Thanks. I was aware of that. It's actually the usages of the template that are broken and the template that was fixed. The template used to have a hack job in it to accommodate cases where the link was manually set to ... or . We are no longer doing that horrible way of seeing what pages are missing and are instead just going with redlink page names. Every page that used to use that old style of formatting will need to be updated. It'll just be a matter of time and it should all be fixed, not something I can bot edit - needs to be done manually one at a time. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message) 18:25, October 12, 2016 (EDT)

SR Items[edit]

Hello. I can't find SR in "Items by effect group" and in "Items by effect". Please say, I didn't find them or they don't exist. UL (ContribsMessage) 15:16, October 16, 2016 (EDT)