User talk:Technical 13/2014/1

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‎I think I may be frighting away Joenuts with some of his changes . May need some help on this front. Iam more Blunt then Diplomatic Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 16:11, January 3, 2014 (EST)

• I'll look into it... I'm not very diplomatic either... :p ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 17:20, January 3, 2014 (EST)

Human Type

As I said on the proper talk page, every single Human type monster I checked since U20 has changed their type from Human to Humanoid. Their race are still human (or Shade, or Shadar-kai). Think you can put the kobolds to work out and mass change the types of every human type monster in the wiki? → Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 17:25, January 7, 2014 (EST)

• I'll put Kobold sneak (Contribs • Message • Email) to work on it tomorrow. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 17:47, January 7, 2014 (EST)

• Kobold sneak has made this change: (changes) -- ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 14:43, January 8, 2014 (EST)

Kobold was too efficient. He also changed MM type from Human to Humanoid.

→ Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 16:52, January 8, 2014 (EST)

• Okay... Let me see if I can get this right:

• All Human type monsters are now Humanoid type monsters.
• All Human race monsters are now Humanoid race monsters.
• All Monster Manual/Human are now Monster Manual/Humanoid.

Correct? ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 17:12, January 8, 2014 (EST)

Almost. The Human Race monsters are untouched. The Human type monsters were changed, as asked. The MM/Human was changed, but wasn't supposed to be, since the MM entry is still "Human".

→ Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 19:48, January 8, 2014 (EST)

• Got it, I'll run the bot again tomorrow and fix the MM type... ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 21:56, January 8, 2014 (EST)

• MM type fixes are done ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 19:39, January 9, 2014 (EST)

Template Update?

Hey Shoemaker, I've noticed that you've been updating category pages and templates with DPL type stuff. I was curious if I can help you with that, and also would it make sense to update the Quest template. the Free parameter seems a little limited as just a boolean. I think it could be more useful if it was changed to Pack with a default value of Free to Play. This would make the DPL queries lighter if we also decided to update the Quest by Level and Quest by Pack pages from their current NCL pages. We wouldn't need to include an additional Uses clause in the DPL query, or a ptbl to format the multiple template joins. SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 21:38, January 8, 2014 (EST)

• I have no idea what you are talking about at this time... Could you please explain what I've been changing? I've go so many projects going it is hard to remember what is what in my head right now... Thanks. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 21:57, January 8, 2014 (EST)

I might be wrong. I thought you were spearheading the project that Bladeedge, Joe, and Aydronis(or something like that) have been doing with DPL recategorization... SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 22:43, January 8, 2014 (EST)

I believe he means Aldyron Talk:DPL_(Dynamic_Page_List) the one currently being use in all the Cat: Clothing/Jewelry pages . Joenuts category cleanup and a new template style changes Shards of Light, User_talk:Joenuts/Component/Small_Candle (which still could use so tweaking, if I didnt scare him off) and me ...pfff Iam just trying to keep things fix thing up and keep stuff up to date. Bladedge (Contributions • Message) 01:58, January 9, 2014 (EST)

what I'm trying to accomplish

Shoemaker, take a look at User:SysteRn/TmplTest and User:SysteRn. The Template that you deleted as useless is actually a very commonly used phantom for DPL queries. Basically, DPL will automatically put the page link in the first column. If you want it in another column, you need the template you deleted. The Syntax [[{{{%PAGE%}}}|{{{%TITLE%}}}]] is correct for returning a link to a page with the namespace stripped out. Example is on my userpage. → SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 03:28, January 11, 2014 (EST)

• I realize that, but do you really need a template for that? ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 07:42, January 11, 2014 (EST)

A simple template to use as a widget? Why not. We use similar templates all over the place (RuneArmTR, for example) Although those tend to be more complete phantom tables than just the base widget. It's simple and useful for drafting what you want the table's structure to be. → SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 14:02, January 11, 2014 (EST)

Would you unprotect a template?

• Hey Shoemaker, if you take a look at User:SysteRn#Spellbook Test, you'll see there's a lot of great content in the spells' articles that's just thrown in the description parameter of the Spelldescription template. I'd like permission to add a note, scroll, and potion parameter to the template. I intend to go through all the spell pages and clean them up once the template has places for content that is pertinent to the article, but in the wrong place in the template. If you're more comfortable doing that change, that's cool, but I don't want to ask you to do my pet project for me. :) SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 13:27, January 14, 2014 (EST)
  • The general idea that I'm persuing is to use transclusion so that content is not duplicated and unmaintained. For instance, changes made to a Rune Arm in the Item: namespace isn't reflected in the Rune Arms article because that table is duplicated with, and disconnected by, the RuneArmTR template. Another example: while cleaning up the class articles, I found that the Swim article had left out that Monk gets the skill as a class skill... My goal is to facilitate minimizing these types of oversights. :) -- SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 13:27, January 14, 2014 (EST)
    • Unprotected. Someone should remember to lock it again afterwards. Also, SysteRn, please sign your posts. --Cru121 (Contributions • Message) 02:39, January 14, 2014 (EST)
    • I've re-protected it. I'll work with you to make the changes, but I don't feel comfortable unlocking such a highly visible template for pretty much anyone to edit. Leaves too much risk of vandalism by someone else. I hope you understand that this is not against you or what you want to improve it, but a fear that someone else could come in and do damage while it is in a less protected state. Also, please sign your posts with ~~~~ -- thanks. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 06:51, January 14, 2014 (EST)
      • That's cool. I understand. I was thinking of simply adding |note, |scroll, and |potion to start. SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 13:27, January 14, 2014 (EST)

• How would these parameters be used and how would they be rendered. Perhaps they could be added to the template in a manner that will make the information easy to grab using DPL from other templates like Template:ScrollWandPotion etc? ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 13:42, January 14, 2014 (EST)
• Look at User:SysteRn#Spellbook Test. Everything in the Description column isn't an amalgam of stuff in the template. All that junk is in the description parameter. The idea is to get the content that's overloading the description param into their own place. As far as rendering them, continuing the template's current

  |'''Description:''' ¶{{{description|}}}<br />  

  style is good enough for me. or for now...
  Also, The template has type1, type2, type3 parameters that aren't used anywhere else. What's up with that? What are those meant for? As far as templates on this wiki go, Spelldescription is rather plain. SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 14:44, January 14, 2014 (EST)
• Oh, might as well add |wand to the parameters as well. :) SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 14:52, January 14, 2014 (EST)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Okay, SysteRn, what would you think of adding:

{{#forargs:vendor_name
| key
| dontcare
| <nowiki />
{{ScrollWandPotion|1={{{vendor_name{{#var:key}}}}}|2={{{vendor_title{{#var:key}}}}}|3={{{location{{#var:key}}}}}|4={{{public_zone{{#var:key}}}}}|5={{{minimum_level{{#var:key}}}}}|6={{{caster_level{{#var:key}}}}}|7={{{UMD{{#var:key}}}}}|8={{{base_value{{#var:key}}}}}|9={{{bind{{#var:key}}}}}}}
}}

to {{Spelldescription}} so that multiple scroll/wand/potion vendors can be added by simply using |vendor_name# = style parameters utilizing the existing {{ScrollWandPotion}} template (see a full demonstration with three different vendors on User:Technical 13/SandBox#User:Technical 13/SandBox/Recursive forarg loops using the test template User:Technical 13/SandBox/Recursive forarg loops)? ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 15:49, January 14, 2014 (EST)

• Yea, that'll work... Every DPL Query wanting to use the vendors would need a phantom template with the loop to concatenate them. I still need a generic notes/tips parameter. SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 16:22, January 14, 2014 (EST)
• Actually, since Template:ScrollWandPotion doesn't distinguish what you're actually buying, We'd probably prefer 3 loops: Scroll_Vendor#, Wand_Vendor#, and Potion_Vendor#. SysteRn (Contributions • Message) 16:24, January 14, 2014 (EST)

• Not sure how I would nest them like that. I wouldn't want all three to always show if they had no listings. Want to try your hand at developing such a thing on Template:Spelldescription/sandbox and we can work up a few short test cases on Template:Spelldescription/testcases to see what it will look like (we can do a side-by-side or in this case probably a top-and-bottom comparison). ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 16:38, January 14, 2014 (EST)

Trap data range

Actually, we need all possible results on non-crits fail and successes. They help limiting the DC range. Exception being made for spell wards and bear traps, that can't be crit success (crit fail can happen, but does nothing). Eg, a trap was failed on a roll of 30 and 33. We know the DC can't be 35 because it would made the 30 roll end up being a crit fail, instead of a standard fail. So, we know the DC is 34, even without having a single "success" data. It is well explained on the main project page. → Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 15:47, January 26, 2014 (EST)

• It is irrelevant data. We only need the highest (crit)fail and the lowest (crit)success numbers to make proper ranges. See Template:IP quest && Template:IP row/testcase for an idea of what I'm envisioning. If 30 is a critfail, then we don't need to know that 31-34 are all fails (it is implied by critfail +5 for min success)... I'm still debugging the logic some, but when done, it will be simple to just input a few numbers (which may later just be dragged directly from the quest pages themselves via DPL) and get a complete table. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 16:27, January 26, 2014 (EST)

Root category // hidden

• I believe I know why root category was *NOT* hidden.

If you check out item pages, the bottom has a frame that links what categories the item exists in, and then below that it shows the tree of all parents of said categories.

When you made the root category hidden, now root is a subcat of hidden categories, which is a subcat of root, and so on and so on. makes a loop

What is the benefit of having root be a subcat of hidden categories?

Joenuts (Contributions • Message) 19:12, January 28, 2014 (EST)

• Ahh... That tells me that you have "Show hidden categories" checked near the bottom of the Appearance tab in your Special:Preferences. If you uncheck that option, and save it, refresh the page, navigate directly to C:Root and then pick any page there and look at the categories at the bottom, you won't see "Root" there or "Hidden categories" at all. This is how "most" readers see pages. C:Root is just an administrative category for editors (and mostly just the more advanced editors) so it shouldn't be seen by readers. Hope this helps. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 19:42, January 28, 2014 (EST)

• Strange, I would swear that the category line(s) showing parent structure underneath the items were shown even when not logged in. My misunderstanding. Joenuts (Contributions • Message) 20:11, January 28, 2014 (EST)

• I would just like to say, reverting the change to make root category hidden is a move in the right direction

Like I said before, non logged in users are able to see parent category structure ( which I believe is a good thing ), and it gets rid of the stupid Root > Hidden > Root loop.

Joenuts (Contributions • Message) 19:49, March 17, 2014 (EDT)

Guess who's back? Back again?

Yup... This guy... I don't really play much DDO anymore these days due to personal reasons, but I'm just as committed to the wiki as I was some years ago.. My main focus is going to be beautification and accessibility for all users... Ague (Contributions • Message) 17:12, February 1, 2014 (EST)

• I noticed. I was about to nominate you for adminship, but realized with your absence, you don't currently qualify. As soon as you get close enough and have some activity back, I'll nominate you and push it through so that you will be able to edit system messages (like common.js and common.css since I'm mostly the only one who does any of that now). ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 18:06, February 1, 2014 (EST)

{{Dmg}}

• This needs some changes, and I can't make them since it is protected.
  1. Sovereign needs to be added to Vorpal for Purple Dragon Shield.
  2. Having to view the source to figure out how to use {{Dmg}} is not a good idea. The table that is referenced in USAGE is commented out. -- Zav (Contributions • Message) 13:49, March 15, 2014 (EDT)

• I've restored the table for you, I'm not remembering why some things were changed, but am about to start a new discussion on categorization that you may be interested in. See DDOt:Category policy#Restore nested category structure. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 14:53, March 15, 2014 (EDT)

• The table shows a some errors, so the template or the table needs to be fixed. In addition to someone adding Sovereign Vorpal to {{Dmg}}, should Spiked (the damage proc) and Forged Lightning be added? (There might be more new effects to add too.) Also, since many weapon effects have changed (see U20.1 notes) {{Dmg}}, {{Bane}}, and maybe others need updated. I'm not sure where Thunderbane or other new unique banes would go as they don't scale. -- Zav (Contributions • Message) 16:24, March 15, 2014 (EDT)

• I noticed that, and I'm assuming it is mostly the table that needs fixing and updating. This is my predicament at the moment however; I have no time to research and properly update this template right now, you're only just shy of half-way to the number of edits needed to become an administrator to make the changes, we don't currently have a protection level in between semi and full protection that I could adjust the template to and give you that user group to make the needed changes, and the template is too high risk to lower the protection level so you could edit it directly. What I'm going to suggest you do is to copy the code to {{Dmg/sandbox}} and make all the needed changes to update it there. We can also copy the table to a /testcases subpage using both versions ({{Dmg}} and {{Dmg/sandbox}}) and make sure that we get the results that we want in the comparison. Then, it would be simple for me to copy and paste that sandbox in over the live template. Does that work for you? ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 17:57, March 15, 2014 (EDT)

• Yea, sandboxing the template and the table will work. Currently I don't have the time to undertake this project either. I am preparing to move to start a new job in a couple weeks. I can add this to my to-do list and start working on it sometime next month after I am settled into my new job/place unless someone else gets to it before me. -- Zav (Contributions • Message) 22:44, March 17, 2014 (EDT)

Adding Raids to Raids page

Is there a feature I do not have access to which allows me to edit the list of raids on the raids page or does adding the correct category at the bottom of each quest page automatically add it into the listing there ?

Would like to contribute of course but can't see a way to get this page listed on the raids page initially.

• You'll need to be more specific, some links to "the raids page" and a couple of the "each quest page" would be useful here I think. :) ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 13:50, March 17, 2014 (EDT)

If I edit this page: https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Epic_raids

Does the raid then show in the listing here: https://ddowiki.com/page/Raids As this page gives no options for adding to the list.

• Nope, you need to add the raid to Raids manually. Also, you should probably not add anything to Category:Epic raids manually, at least until you know how categories work. ;) ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 15:10, March 17, 2014 (EDT)

The edit option at the top of the page only shows some basic code, nothing to do with the raid list at all.

Read through everything regarding categories - extremely more confused then before!!

Easy explanation ? → Agonshar (Contributions • Message) 12:01, March 25, 2014 (EDT)

• Easy? Nope... Categories can be a complicated thing to understand. :\ Nothing but time and practice will help you understand them I'm afraid is likely. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 23:36, March 25, 2014 (EDT)

Tabs on your page

Just a question - I don't seem to be able to find anything about how to replicate the way in which your personal page is set up - you have tabs at the top with each holding its own page, had a look at the source of your page and it doesn't detail any info in the code there either.

I want to have this format so that i can keep notes on things in separate sections - advice ? → Agonshar (Contributions • Message) 11:58, March 25, 2014 (EDT)

• My tabs are pretty much hard coded in using html and css... {{UserTabs}} which was created by Ague (Contribs • Message • Email) and based on my tabs (which were based on Sef's (Contribs • Message • Email) tabs) might be of interest to you though. ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 23:47, March 25, 2014 (EDT)

Well after looking around the wiki I found some useful information but it appears that its incomplete as I have checked all my pages that I have coded twice over now and still i get a coding issue on my userpage - take a look...

User:agonshar

Heres where I got the info from: DDO_wiki:User_page_customizations/tabs

As you can see I'm close to having it all setup but the coding brackets elude me _ i have checked all my pages are identical to the walkthrough - but unsure how to correct although it does look like step 1 on the tutorial page is incomplete:

Isn't the coding supposed to close after the border bit or is there more to it that's been edited out perhaps ? Unsure if that's the answer - can you help ?

→ Agonshar (Contributions • Message) 15:10, March 26, 2014 (EDT)

I see the error - I mis-understood the instructions - they said to create page User:Agonshar/xxx - I was creating pages Agonshar/xxx - you;ve corrected all of this now and set it all up for me deleting old ages - thank you very much.

Now all i need to do is undo the changes I made to the In Development page so that Update 21 shows as its own editable table And I can move on again. → Agonshar (Contributions • Message) 19:28, March 26, 2014 (EDT)

• I've fixed your tabs (I had to move many of the pages to your userspace out of mainspace) and I've fixed the |} showing up and updated the documentation to prevent it happening again... I had forgotten I made that tutorial (I had thought it was either on Sef326's talk page or mine someplace, but couldn't find it when I went hunting). ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 15:39, March 26, 2014 (EDT)

Augment slot crafting is wrong

I didnt want to go moving pages around just as soon as I have permission to do so in the VIP group.

So here's the issue I've noticed: HERE you can read that the Augment system isn't correct on the wiki - its correct name is Augmentation and part of that process is the Augment slot - which is how we have it named. I note that there is a Dis-ambiguous page at this location, how should we proceed ?

I did check for double and broken redirects but there isn't any and moving the page isn't possible anyway due to the older page. → Agonshar (Contributions • Message) 23:30, March 26, 2014 (EDT)