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Template talk:Dashboard
Public Version[edit]
Once I upload the missing icons for Shields, Orbs and Rune Arms, I was hoping to "Publish" this page by moving it out of User talk:EllisDee37 and just having it be ddowiki.com/page/Dashboard, then posting a notice on forums for anyone else who would like to use it as their wiki "home page." Would that be okay? EllisDee37 (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:29, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
- I don't see why not. Just a warning: Once you publish it, there's the risk that other editors will modify it to what THEY think is the best for the world - which might not correspond entirely to your needs. --Cru121
- Understood. I can always keep my user page version in case the community changes the "published" one in ways I don't like. EllisDee37 (Contribs • Message • Email) 03:06, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
So apparently User:JJMC89 didn't like it for some reason, though he was not forthcoming with the details. For some reason he moved it to "Users:EllisDee37/dashboard" (lowercase "d"), which of course should be deleted. Why would I need two, one capitalized and one not? Also, why does it "not belong in the mainspace"? People seemed to like it. EllisDee37 (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:28, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
- The argument against being in mainspace would be that it is a custom user layout, not any information that is related to the game, and so should remain "personal". However, something like this is not completely unprecedented, but such "advanced formatting" examples follow a diff naming policy (e.g. something like "DDO wiki:User page customizations/tabs"). I can see it being useful (and nicely done, either way!), so I'd suggest either a "DDO Wiki:User page customization/dashboard" article name (along with supporting redirects), or just a redirect from "Dashboard" to your personal page. C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 14:08, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
- I'm not sure I understand how it's not related to the game. As for being under my personal page, that would be okay if it were only intended for me, but the mainspace version is intended to be used by anyone who wants to. There's a DDO forum thread with people saying "Great job, switching my bookmark to this." It would be weird if those people's main ddowiki bookmark went to my personal userpage, no? Also, the whole point is uncluttered access, which would be undermined if it were stuck inside a tabbed interface on a userpage. EllisDee37 (Contribs • Message • Email) 16:18, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
- I'm not sure what's going on with this... Did I miss a discussion some place? Can someone pop into our Discord chat server and fill me in? ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 14:12, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
- No, this is everything. I'm not on /chat, but it's pretty straightforward:
- 1) User:EllisDee37 created this "dashboard" layout on his /personal page, then published it in mainspace under the self-descriptive article name "Dashboard".
- 2) User:JJMC89 moved it back to a /personal page under User:EllisDee37, and deleted "Dashboard", stating (in total) "does not belong in mainspace"
- 3) User:Cru121 undid the deletion, stating (in total) "let's follow the DDO wiki:Deletion policy if you want"
- 4) User:JJMC89 did exactly that, and here we are.
- See my opinion above. C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 14:47, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
- As an additional comment, I'll point out that the value of this is demonstrated by the Forum responses. So somewhere in mainspace, even if under a clearly demarcated article title, sim to other popular formatting articles. C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 16:34, April 25, 2017 (EDT)
- From the thread it's clear that this should be in mainspace as it is highly regarded by many - it's silly that multiple people will be using a personal page.
- Also this example, while the first of it's kind is a good one - certain themed landing pages are appropriate for certain purposes. I would suggest it is a mechanic that could be adapted for new players for example, who need more targeted information flow than the abstracted everything of the wiki as a whole. (It would not surprise me if new players already book mark certain pages already - all we would be doing is making this a little easier and friendlier).
- We will always value the 'front' page of the wiki, but having alternate pages for a specific purpose allows the wiki as a whole to be used more effectively for certain user types. ElliseDee37's userpage is very build focused when there are those of us who are not as interested and might prefer another type of Dashboard.
- Therefore, are individual visitor's browsing behaviours measured anywhere? Could we classify types of wiki users to suggest what types of Dashboards might be appropriate to certain people? (For data lake fun purposes more than anything )
Namespace[edit]
Meta pages should not be in mainspace. This meta page belongs in user or project space. — Zav (T·C) 00:52, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
- I don't know much about meta pages, but I don't see Dashboard as a page about pages. I see it as a variant rendering of Home#Sitemap. As such, it should be in the same namespace as Home or Glossary or Game mechanics. --Cru121 (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:39, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
F that, the page is good. leave it. — previous unsigned
Please sign posts using ~~~~ comment by 69.127.169.120 (d | r | b ) at 21:33, September 18, 2019 (UTC)
- Zav is correct in that this page doesn't belong in *:mainspace. He's wrong in that it doesn't really belong in user or project space either. This is a template, and belongs in template space just like all of the other header templates. I'll note I saw somewhere in the comments above that it's like the sitenotice, that's not correct either and that resides in MW: space where only admins can edit it. This "Dashboard" is a navigational template in definition. I'll move it to the proper Template namespace and then there will be no reason left to delete it as JJ's only argument for deletion is that it's in mainspace and I see no other support for deletion. As a sidenote, I encourage everyone to pop into the wiki's official Discord chat server if they haven't already, this could have been quickly discussed out in real time there (involving me sooner) and never needing to get to this point. Thanks! ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:31, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
- I was thinking this was going to be like Project:Dashboard on Wikipedia, but a template is fine with me. It just doesn't belong in a content namespace. Just to be clear, I didn't (and don't) want it deleted. — Zav (T·C) 22:00, April 27, 2017 (EDT)
- It's conceptually the same as Template:Dashboard on Wikipedia and falls under the category of "navigational template" which is why I moved it to template instead of project. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 23:06, April 27, 2017 (EDT)
- I was thinking this was going to be like Project:Dashboard on Wikipedia, but a template is fine with me. It just doesn't belong in a content namespace. Just to be clear, I didn't (and don't) want it deleted. — Zav (T·C) 22:00, April 27, 2017 (EDT)
- Zav is correct in that this page doesn't belong in *:mainspace. He's wrong in that it doesn't really belong in user or project space either. This is a template, and belongs in template space just like all of the other header templates. I'll note I saw somewhere in the comments above that it's like the sitenotice, that's not correct either and that resides in MW: space where only admins can edit it. This "Dashboard" is a navigational template in definition. I'll move it to the proper Template namespace and then there will be no reason left to delete it as JJ's only argument for deletion is that it's in mainspace and I see no other support for deletion. As a sidenote, I encourage everyone to pop into the wiki's official Discord chat server if they haven't already, this could have been quickly discussed out in real time there (involving me sooner) and never needing to get to this point. Thanks! ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:31, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
Rules are good, but following a rule blindly to the detriment of all is not good. The mission of this Wiki (and forgive if I'm paraphrasing) is to get information to the public. To allow a "Rule" of the wiki to undermine the larger mission of that wiki is prima facia counter-productive, and a mistake. This page was designed as a navigational aid, to be a stand-alone gateway to be bookmarked. It did that well before, and less well as a "template" - so the work-around is already failing the mission of the wiki in order to serve the rule.
No, I'm not arguing abandoning the rules, I'm arguing that exceptions should be made, and/or rules re-written to embrace and welcome useful contributions that fall outside the norm.
For many, this page serves as a gateway better than the Home page. Let the public choose which they want to bookmark. Don't detract from its usefulness by changing it so it can be shoehorned into one category or another (like "a Template") - keep the larger goal in sight, to be of service to bringing information to the public.
To that end, I am in favor of returning it to the non-template style, and adding it to the same administrative category as the Home page. This would also limit the people who can edit it (and iEllisDee should be included in that list, if he is not already). Or, hell, creating a new category - the Wiki is greater than any Rule, right? In my opinion, it serves that purpose as well or better than anything we currently have, and so deserves nothing less. C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:21, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
(p.s. -Can't log in to Discord Server.)
- There is no visible difference in it being in mainspace and it being in template space. So, there is no reason to break the rule when it looks exactly the same to the public. The non-template style takes away the ability for different users to customize it to appear the way they want on their user pages. That is the whole point of a template. To allow multiple transclusions with varying displays for different people. To take that ability to customize away from the majority people to serve a few hurts the wiki. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:46, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
- That is only true if you assume wiki-USERS are the ones using it - which is false (and perhaps to an extreme). Customization is not a necessary precursor to something being useful, or even being (close to) optimal. This forum quote/post, and others like it, support that - many in the public don't want to customize it, they don't want code or "how to" at the top, they want something turnkey. It was that before, and is not now. As a final comment - isn't there room for both. C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:57, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
- I don't assume that at all. The base version is the same for non-users regardless of which namespace it is in. The only time the dashboard changes at all is for users who choose to use the template and customize it. It is now exactly as it was then, just on a different page name. ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 20:04, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
- That is only true if you assume wiki-USERS are the ones using it - which is false (and perhaps to an extreme). Customization is not a necessary precursor to something being useful, or even being (close to) optimal. This forum quote/post, and others like it, support that - many in the public don't want to customize it, they don't want code or "how to" at the top, they want something turnkey. It was that before, and is not now. As a final comment - isn't there room for both. C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:57, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
CSS[edit]
The CSS sample to hide the template code doesn't work (Chrome 57) Christopher G Lewis (Contribs • Message • Email)
- I couldn't figure out quickly why it wasn't working, something strange with the MW parser I guess. I've converted it to javascript and you're all set now. :) ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 13:32, April 26, 2017 (EDT)
Is there a way we can move the "usage" information either to the bottom, or (with a note to that effect) to this page? The goal of this "template" is to act as a navigational aid to make the wiki more accessible to the average user. If there's a screenful of code at the top, it only detracts from that service. (Also, see my comments re "mainspace", above) C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:06, April 26, 2017 (EDT)