Talk:The Twelve

Time Bandits and Worst Case Scenario

Time Bandits and Worst Case Scenario were added with the rest of the initial quests in The Twelve on [Nov 11 2009]. Guessing they were planned quests that never happened. Surprised they haven't been removed from the page in all the edits since then. Any reason they shouldn't be removed now? Backley 16:51, December 5, 2011 (EST)

From the ddo companion looks like they may have been a type of a dev testing grounds from '09. The quest still apper in the ddo compendium and I think they one time briefly showed up in the game adventures compendium.

• http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Quest:Time_Bandits
• http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Story_Arc:Worst_Case_Scenario
• http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Quest:Worst_Case_Scenario Bladedge 18:11, December 5, 2011 (EST)

Separating page into two

Can we separate the Tower of the Twelve out from the City zone of The Twelve? This change in Place/Zone - especially since people will be accessing the page with the recent update - makes me uncomfortable at this point in my wiki-experience. ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:16, July 25, 2018 (EDT)

• Go for it! I mean... The Twelve and Tower of the Twelve are already separate pages, so I'm not sure what you want to do exactly? ⇒ DDOstream (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:18, July 25, 2018 (EDT)
  • Ahh, ok! The internal workings of the Tower are listed in the Zone The Twelve, as well as in the table in Places... I was thinking they were one location. Perhaps shuffling material off The Twelve and into The Tower would make it less overlappy? Is that in my allowances as an editor? Thanks for reply! ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:49, July 25, 2018 (EDT)
    • You are certainly able to do that unless there is some kind of page protection in place. ⇒ DDOstream (Contribs • Message • Email) 11:09, July 25, 2018 (EDT)

Favor Rank Patron Letters - in general...

The Twelve‎; 18:30 . . (-250)‎ . . ‎Faltout (Talk | contribs)‎ (removed the bold from the section. Keep only the important NPCs and perhaps use individual NPC locations instead of location sections? Discuss in the talk page what you mean by "The Patron info for each House is a little wonky on the House pages.") [rollback 1 edit]  [4 users ☺]

(diff | hist) . .

The Twelve‎; 18:08 . . (+1,045)‎ . . ‎Meander (Talk | contribs)‎ (taking a stab at organizing the Twelve. Should the Patron (who is in the Tower) be moved ? The Patron info for each House is a little wonky on the House pages. Need an idea for how/where to place Favor info - own link page per each?)  [4 users ☺]

--moved here, probably incorrectly, but you get the idea ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:29, August 1, 2018 (EDT)

1. I see what you mean about non-essential NPCs, Faltout, agreed. Though I am not sure what you mean by "perhaps use individual NPC locations instead of location sections." The open-air inn is a defined space, but not one that requires zoning. The U39 area...you want to see that combined with other Twelve NPCs as a long list? I was giving recognition to the update, but that is probably not necessary.
2. I think the informational letters from Favor Patrons of all Houses should either be compressed when the page opens (if this is an option), or a link to another page with the letters. They are much like the flavor NPCs...interesting, but not high priority.⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:29, August 1, 2018 (EDT)

The Twelve‎; 19:22 . . (+6)‎ . . ‎Technical 13 (Talk | contribs)‎ (All NPCs should be listed - best place to link them and not have orphans or dead-end links.) [rollback 1 edit]  [4 users ☺] moved by ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:38, August 1, 2018 (EDT)

I would love to know where/how to add Flavor/roleplay NPCs... And those links I added wont stay empty!... got the dialog and pics already. However, if we talk about the small dialog exchanges between NPCs in Korthos or the Marketplace.... we have a long list of people.... which I am not convinced need to be in the City Zone pages directly. I have been amassing the info and (after Inns) want to step into City Zones. Let's talk!⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 19:38, August 1, 2018 (EDT)

• They just need to be listed/linked to in the zone that they're in so they have a link going to them (preventing them from being an orphan). I don't care if it is a manually made list of NPCs in XXX area or if it is dynamically made by DPL (which it probably should be so it's always as up-to-date as possible).  👟 ShoeMaker (Contribs • Message • Email) 👟 19:52, August 1, 2018 (EDT)
  • The mail from the patron representatives can certainly be collapsed when the page opens if people want. However, since there is already a collapse option AND a table of contents so you can skip directly to the quests, I don't feel like this is necessary. The patron mail is also tied with the favor rewards, so having those 2 together in this page makes sense.
    As for the Important NPCs, I completely disagree that every NPC in a zone needs to be listed there because there are just so many irrelevant NPCs and they clutter the relevant ones as well as not provide any meaningful information about the zone. Also, the NPCs are linked from the category pages they belong to. (Unless of course someone recently screwed up the NPC template and now half the NPCs are without a category, which is still not a reason to forcefully link them from pages) ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 21:16, August 1, 2018 (EDT)
    • Some ideas:
      It is my opinion that we should link to Favor from each City Zone.
      "Expect a letter from Jeanselme Brucetius when you've earned The Twelve Favor." (for example)
      I also think the patron letters can be moved to the NPC Favor Patron pages, since they are the ones writing the letters.
      City Zone NPC's can be separated into : Quest, Service, and Other. That should make it visually easy for people popping into the wiki looking for something specific. A DPL table for each would keep them separated and updated. Might look like a financial report with the Quest DPL, though.
    • I agree with Faltout in that we don't want to overwhelm the viewer of a City page with long inter-twined lists of NPCs. I also agree with Technical_13 that these characters need to be in the Places we expect to find them. ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 02:07, August 2, 2018 (EDT)
      • There is already a link to the favor page from each patron page: "Completing tasks and missions for the various patrons will increase your favor, which is a measure of how valuable the different patrons find your character. At each new rank, the patron representative will provide a character with a reward." exists below the "Favor Ranks" section.
        I think the patron mail is good where it's at since it is tied with the patron faction and the rewards. Information is not necessarily displayed in a single place because it thematically belongs there. It's displayed wherever a reader expects to find it or should be aware of it while reading something else.
        As for the flavor NPCs, why do they need to be listed in places other than categories? What would a reader expect to find in a wiki article related to those NPCs? A simple listing of the NPCs can be done with categories. Would an article offer other content as well? ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 05:16, August 2, 2018 (EDT)
        • This has provoked me to thought, Faltout, thanks. (*grumbles) I was going to defend with tooth and nail that flavor NPCs should be housed within Places – for what are places? … the physical structures and the people... including the panhandler!
          So I asked myself "why is this important to me?" The reason I want the flavor NPCs and am willing to defend their spot within the wiki is for the simple fact that it informs my fiction writing and has helped me make decisions for roleplay. I will concede that most people do not come here to do this, neither do I while I am straight-up gaming… so your recommendation for a category will suffice and also keep the city pages clear of clutter. Blast you and your infernal reasoning capacity!
          Speaking of clutter...
          You don't like the way Nyx Durandimion holds the letters? (missing from the Harbor page, I see =/)
          ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 20:21, August 2, 2018 (EDT)
          • I do. I still think the mail should also be displayed at the patron page. ⇒ Faltout (Contribs • Message • Email) 21:07, August 2, 2018 (EDT)
            • Do they also need to be in the City page? The Twelve⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 21:24, August 2, 2018 (EDT)
            • pfft, I see Patron and City Zone are one and the same page, sorry. This is like calling a square a rectangle. I don't like it, even if it does ultimately make sense in one way. I'll stop hounding the appearance of the City pages (at least until I come up with another way to persuade). =P ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 22:36, August 2, 2018 (EDT)