Talk:Syndeo's Guide to Being a Respected Rogue

Thanks for making the guide, but I really have to leave some comments here...

Putting strength in there as the most important ability for a Rogue seems a bit iffy to me - I'd class it as one of the _least_ useful. While you sure can play a Rogue who uses brute strength like a Barbarian to club down enemies (and most likely doesn't have enough points left for other stuff...), the better way for spending your points is abandoning strength completely and just getting the feat "Weapon Finesse" - with which your DEX-Bonus will go into the attack for light weapons instead of STR, so you will be able to hit your enemies without having any great strength. The damage you do as a rogue rests more or less completely on the sneak attack, so the few points of damage you get from being moderately strong (str 14-18) aren't really relevant. So while having too low a value of strength will make it difficult to carry stuff around, you can easily stay in the range of 8-12 with it...

While Charisma hasn't the prime spot like Intelligence for a Rogue, it's not "not important" - one of the most useful Rogue skills - Use Magic Device (which allows you to use cure wands and all kinds of goody items) depends on Charisma. You don't need to spend too much on it, but ending up with Cha 8 and a -1 to UMD can hurt a "swiss-army-knife rogue" who wants to do it all. -15:55, 30 August 2010 84.168.246.140

Edited all your guides to make them more through and up-to-date. The main thing you did wrong is downplaying the importance of CON, as high HP is vital to all classes. You also incorrectly posted Armor Check when you meant Armor Class a few times. -20:27, 27 January 2011, Fishcatch22

Non-Syndeo edits on a Syndeo guide

This is a specific User's "Guide" and I'm not sure that https://ddowiki.com/index.php?title=Syndeo%27s_Guide_to_Being_a_Respected_Rogue&oldid=128702 is a valid edit.. Part of the guide is the User's personality that wrote it (Syndeo (Contribs • Message • Email)), and I do not believe it should be modified unless by said user. In this case where Syndeo has made no contribution to the wiki since 12:11, July 15, 2010, I'm not sure how I feel about it though.. Those kinds of edits would be best served on the Rogue page itself imho.. -- ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 23:00, April 8, 2012 (EDT)

Took the liberty of making some pretty big revisions

As of 5/5/2012 I made some pretty big revisions to this guide - mainly because in a few places the author wrote that he didn't know the class as well as some others, and that if experienced rogues had other advice they should feel free to put it in. I tried to maintain the original voice of the author wherever it was reasonable to do so without spreading any faulty advice - here's a list of the major changes I made.

• Expanded on the list of clickies, adding a section for endgame clickies which include ToD, Vale, and a few other types
• Edited feat selections section a bit
  • Added Power Attack and Improved Critical.
  • Stated that most Skill Focus feats are unnecessary, but that Use Magic Device is most useful of them.
  • Edited the description for toughness, to add that it opens enhancement options.
  • Edited the description for Weapon Finesse, to include that it is generally seen as a poor choice for DPS focused rogues.
• Edited the stat suggestions.
  • Suggested a starting strength of 16 for acrobats and assassins, and 12 for mechanics.
  • Suggested a dexterity of 15 for assassins, 8 for acrobats, and higher for mechanics.
  • Suggested a constitution of 14-16.
  • Suggested an intelligence of 10-12, or possibly higher for assassins.
  • Suggested a wisdom and charisma of 8.
• Edited the race descriptions.
  • Suggested that Dwarf is a solid rogue race.
  • Suggested that beginners avoid Warforged, due to the healing amplification penalties.
  • Suggested that halfling be avoided for the strength penalty.
• Edited skill descriptions.
  • Emphasized the importance of Search, UMD, and Disable Device.
  • Suggested that Bluff, Hide, and Move Silently are primarily flavor skills and should not be focused on.
  • Added Intimidate, and explained its use.
  • Suggested putting one rank into tumble and avoiding jump, since it is marginalized at end game.
  • Suggested putting half ranks into open lock, since lock DCs are universally low.
  • Suggested higher priority for haggle and balance, two useful skills in the current game

Overall I think the above changes help update this guide for the current state of the game. If you've got any questions, comments, or suggestions, feel free to edit my changes or leave me a note on my user talk page. User:Xveganrox

My only concern is that some of the edits seem a little biased. We try to maintain entirely neutral articles on this wiki... If you could take a moment and remove any "this is better than that" or "this is not useful", that would be appreciated. Keep in mind, that there are 3 different types of rogues and that different stats are very much important for some builds even though they are not for others. Example is INT and DEX is very important to a mechanic, and STR is not. CON is also slightly less important to a mechanic repeater rogue (they don't necessarily need the extra HP because they don't get hit -- or should I say avoid most damage), although hit points are important to all characters. Try to keep this kind of thing in mind when making edits on build pages. -- ShoeMaker (Contributions • Message) 16:32, May 5, 2012 (EDT)

I think the added notes turned out a lot biased towards STR assassins that are grouped or in a raid. saying rogues don't make good soloists is one the major flaws I see. If you have a good bluff, and take time to jump off the heat to heal, and you can kill anything vulnerable to sneak attacks. Another point is the usefulness of hide skills. If you are soloing, sneaking around is a GREAT tool to avoid fights. Sure, it's not as fast as using an invisibility clickie and running around, but get the job done. Hide/MS to sneak around, bluff to sneak attack the boss, UMD to use scrolls or wands (with the wand enhancement line, wands heal a lot before cap), and the rogue can solo any content that is not undead, elemental, or construct-heavy.

Second use of bluff is to allow the entire party to unleash sneak attacks (from tharne's and such). Since the U9 revamp, unless you are facing a boss that should NOT turn around (Like CAD, Sully and Horoth), free use of bluff is advised. --Nibelung (Contributions • Message) 17:47, May 5, 2012 (EDT)

Edited out most of the biased opinions and redundant stats description. Even though they do less DPS, DEX rogues still exist and are a viable build choice. Not everyone wants to max DPS at the expensive of all else, and people should at least know that they exist.I also re-added some info about building Mechanics that was left out.- --Fishctach22 (Contributions • Message) 16:28, May 8, 2012 (EDT)

Outdated?

I ran into a player w/ a broken Rogue build, and he mentioned this "Guide" - which I'd been unaware of. The fact that it was written in late-2010 (update 7), and was last significantly edited in mid-2012 (pre update 14) is not obvious to the casual reader, who (like the player I ran into) took it at face value, and trusted "The Wiki" to have good info. And this is not the only such guide (also Ranger and Cleric, both contemporary to this one). I'm neither particularly qualified nor at the moment motivated to give this the overhaul that the (new) Player Base deserves; perhaps (at least for now) some sort of "Historical" warning at the top? ⇒ C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 06:38, February 24, 2019 (EST)

• I second this sentiment. ⇒ meander (Contribs • Message • Email) 15:53, February 24, 2019 (EST)

Well, 3 days later, I'm pulling the trigger. ⇒ C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 08:01, February 27, 2019 (EST)

• Should have been tagged as {{History}} and not {{Update}}. I've fixed it, but the page should be protected from editing as a locked archive too. ⇒ DDOstream (Contribs • Message • Email) 10:14, February 27, 2019 (EST)
  • Thanks, and agreed. If someone wants to tackle a rewrite, it should a) be an entirely new article, and b) not be a "personal" article, as this was. A Wiki is not/should not be based on individuals "owning" an article, intentionally or by default. ⇒ C-Hound (Contribs • Message • Email) 15:29, February 27, 2019 (EST)